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  • rolodomo - Friday, October 14, 2011 - link

    Wow, thanks. The minor headline is ASUS FINALLY releasing their 27" 3D monitor as a NVIDIA launch monitor no less. So Acer decided it was worth their time to revise the HN274H...interesting. Reply
  • Guspaz - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    And yet, once again, 3D monitors are deficient in some other way. This new 27" 3D monitor is decided low-resolution, with many 27" monitors featuring 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 resolutions. Reply
  • LtGoonRush - Friday, October 14, 2011 - link

    Any word on whether this produces a noticeable flicker? Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, October 14, 2011 - link

    I just got back from the exhibit hall, and at first glance I'd say no. I'll get some more hands-on time tomorrow, but the exhibit I did see (a 3DV Surround setup) using the Asus monitor along with the 3DV2 glasses didn't produce any flicker I could perceive. This goes for both the glasses and the monitor without glasses. Reply
  • lyeoh - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    Try look at it out of the side/corner of your eye.
    Try videoing the picture with a 60fps camera to see what happens :).

    The modulation of the backlight should be not much different from any flourescent lighting that flickers at 120Hz. They probably get the LED backlight to flicker at a constant 120Hz and make sure everything is synchronized with it.

    So if you don't notice flickering from flourescent lamps you wouldn't for these.
    Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    Unfortunately the Hornet doesn't make a great testing environment. I didn't see any flickering later even when looking out of the corner of my eye, but given the lighting situation I'd say nothing is conclusive until we can test it under controlled conditions. Reply
  • ShiSHKaBoB - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    Does the shade of the Vision2 lenses differ from the shade of the Vision1 lenses? From the images it appears the Vision1 lenses are darker, and I would imagine that this would block out some light by itself(making the Vision2 brighter overall). Would it be beneficial to upgrade my current Vision1 glasses to Vision2 even if my laptop (Clevo P170HM/3D) does not support light boost? Thanks, loved the write up. Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    I would not say the shade differs much if at all - the difference in pictures is because the stock 3D Vision 1 picture we have has the darkened lenses. But I would have to compare the two models side by side to be sure.

    As for whether it would be beneficial to upgrade, only if you'd like bigger glasses. Without 3D LightBoost NVIDIA's glasses would be using their original timings with the shutters being closed for longer periods of time.
    Reply
  • QChronoD - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    They're able to increase the brightness because the lights are turned off part of the time and able to dissipate any heat buildup that the higher output would cause. There is a limit to the output of any specific LED, but you can get a higher peak if its running on a duty cycle compared to being driven continuously. Reply
  • LordOfTheBoired - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    So, ummm... has nVidia(or anyone at all) announced plans for some 3D glasses that fit over corrective glasses yet?
    Roughly half the US population wears glasses. And we're almost completely shut out by 3D.

    In fact, to date the only 3D displays I've seen that have ANY consideration for corrective glasses are the 3DS and it's big brother, the much-reviled Virtual Boy.
    Is that really what you want, nVidia? To be worse than the Virtual Boy?
    Reply
  • Rolphus - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    My 3D Vision set fits fine over my glasses. I'm extremely short sighted (-9.75 dioptres). Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    The 3DV2 glasses are more likely to fit over your corrective glasses (I've seen one person doing it), but these aren't massively oversized glasses. So your mileage may vary. Reply
  • headbox - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    CONTACT LENSES?! Reply
  • chizow - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    Yep these do fit over prescription lenses (my brother in law wore them fine over his glasses), but I would imagine that would largely depend on the size of your prescription frames. Reply
  • Aikouka - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    I assume your interactions with 3D have probably been in a theater and not with the home equipment. I wear glasses and understand that Real3D glasses aren't that big; however, you should consider trying IMAX 3D glasses if you want to see a movie in 3D in the theater. They're actually bigger and fit fine.

    But anyway... about 3D glasses for home use! I use a pair of Optoma DLP Link 3D glasses on my TV, and they fit over my glasses fine. In my experience, the glasses you buy for home use tend to be bigger than those cheap polarized ones you see in the theater.
    Reply
  • r3loaded - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    I have a couple of issues left with 3D Vision:

    1) No IPS 3D monitors are available. This is a big deal-breaker for many.
    2) 1920x1080 on a 27 inch monitor? Seriously? I wish the monitor makers would stop fixating on this "Full HD" as the be all and end all of resolutions, and try to push the envelope further. We're soon going to end upon a world where the next iPad has a higher resolution than most desktop monitors.
    3) The glasses need to take into account people with prescription glasses. With current 3D glasses l, the bone above my ear is put under too much pressure from both sets of glasses.
    Reply
  • zsero - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    Mitsubishi announced a 3D capable IPS monitor. And I think Sony has a passive one for broadcast studios, for 5 digit price. Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    If it's the Mitsubishi I've seen, then it only does 3D over HDMI. Reply
  • DaFox - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    Does that thing exist or is that a typo?

    BenQ stated that they were supplying GeForce LAN with XL2410T's but (according to my research) have never acknowledged the existence of a 2420.
    Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Saturday, October 15, 2011 - link

    The document I have from NVIDIA specifically mentions the XL2420T and the XL2420TX. Reply
  • DaFox - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    Awesome! Thanks Ryan. Reply
  • marraco - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    3D glasses need movement sensors, so the screen reacts and updates to head movement.

    I remember that when I played my first 3D game, I instinctively moved my head to “see” around corners, and got frustrated because, obviously, it didn’t worked.

    I learned not to do that, but still I dream with doing it.
    Reply
  • Akv - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    I'm still not sure I would want to bother to put on glasses to watch my movies. Reply
  • HDBanger - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    (although strictly speaking the integrated IR transmitter isn’t required for 3D LightBoost or 3D Vision 2)

    So why would they include an integrated one in the monitors then? If it isn't needed anymore, what is the point?
    Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    You still need A transmitter, it just doesn't have to be integrated into the monitor. Glasses + USB hub is equally valid for 3DV2. Reply
  • Aikouka - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    Unless you're using a (USB) corded model of their 3D glasses, an IR transmitter is required in some fashion. Whether you have it integrated into your monitor or a separate device, it needs to be there to tell the glasses when to switch. Reply
  • chizow - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    Ryan, not sure if you still have access to the glasses, but were you able to see how uniform the lenses were for blocking light? A big part of stereo cross-talk on the old glasses was due to the fact the louvred shutters in the lenses did not uniformly block light; generally, they did a better job in the middle of the glasses, but worst toward the periphery. So in normal 3D viewing, you might see more cross-talk on the edges of the screen because the lenses themselves were not blocking out light meant for the other eye toward the edge of the lenses.

    Very informative article though, would love to hear a hands-on comparison of old glasses vs.new on an old 3D Vision LCD to see if there's any signaling/shuttering improvements beyond the stated size and material upgrades.

    Also pretty surprised to hear Nvidia has sold 500K pairs of glasses. That's a pretty impressive number, we'll have to see if they continue building momentum now that there's increased competition from the various LCD mfgs. with their own proprietary glasses, especially now that a lot of them are going to much cheaper passive polarized solutions.
    Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    By the time I caught this message I had already left, but I didn't notice any uniformity issues when using them. It's something where we need to test it under controlled conditions to be sure.

    Note that signaling hasn't changed. This is why 3DV1 and 3DV2 are completely compatible.
    Reply
  • chizow - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link

    Hi Ryan thanks for the reply.

    I was actually referring to internal signaling differences that might help the shutters refresh more uniformly in the glasses themselves.

    Also to test the lens uniformity, there's a few ways to accomplish this, but basically you attempt to bug the stereo mode out so that one eye is always shuttered black. A few ways to do this, you can use the Nvidia Stereo Viewer and try to play 3D content in an unsupported playback mode. This triggers the USB emitter/3D Vision but the lenses get confused and shutter incorrectly.

    You can also hold the power button on the left arm of the glasses which triggers ~10s span where the shutters are closed. In 3D Stereoviewer, if I mess with the power button enough while 3D Vision is on, I can get the left lens to stay completely dark, which makes it very easy to see the inconsistency in how much the different areas of the lens block light.

    Lastly Andrew Fear at Nvidia posted some updates on the 3D Vision forums making a point that wasn't very well conveyed here or in the other 3DV2 launch articles. LightBoost technology does indeed work with the older 3DV1 glasses so the technology is dependent on a LightBoost capable monitor only. The USB emitter and glasses can both be 3DV1 and still take advantage of LightBoost. I'm not sure if you stated otherwise, but I was pretty surprised by this revelation even after reading a few of these write-ups.

    http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id...

    Do you plan on getting a kit to review? Look forward to it if you do.
    Reply
  • bbee - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - link

    A lot of us already have a great 3D monitor and glasses - the TV set. I've been using my 55" off an ond with nvidia's 3DTV play and it works great, but nvidia's support is pretty bad. They seem to like to tie it down to specific TV sets and recievers leading to people hacking around with INF files. I assume this is because they prefer you'd buy it bumdled with "select notebooks" and with their "3D Vision PCs".
    Any idea how this announcement affects their 3DTV offering? Will there be a new version of this soon perhaps?
    Reply
  • Aikouka - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    Hm, that sounds odd that they would lock it down like that. All they need to do is check the EDID for 3D compatibility (I've never been able to find out how its specified in the spec though), and they shouldn't really care much beyond that. nVidia (in the 3DTV play) and AMD both use frame packing (like Blu-Ray) for displaying 3D content over HDMI, which is limited to mostly 3 resolutions: 720p50, 720p60 and 1080p24. The latter is also the reason why I don't like 3D over HDMI much for PC gaming... 24Hz is awful. Reply
  • chizow - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    Its really nothing like that, Nvidia support openly encourages end-users to submit their unsupported 3DTV model INFs so they can add them to their driver database in upcoming releases. Unless the TV mfgs themselves proactively support and forward this information directly to Nvidia, there is always going to be gaps in support for newer TVs.

    From Nvidia's list you can see they support a vast array of 3D TVs, generally the only ones not supported are newer or off-brand models, but for none of the reasons you insinuate.

    You can read the FAQ and instructions here on how to update your monitor's support: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id...
    Reply
  • Aikouka - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    The problem that I'm alluding to in my post, which you are actually illustrating quite well in your own, is that the INF method is theoretically unnecessary. The whole point of EDID is to actively define the capabilities of a device over HDMI. An example is how the PS3 uses EDID to define whether or not your home theater setup is 3D capable. Although, it's not very straight-forward while setting the resolution. The only way to tell is when it asks you the size of your TV, which it only does if it detects that your setup is 3D capable.

    Essentially, why is nVidia hard coding devices into their settings files when the information they need should be readily available from the device itself?
    Reply
  • chizow - Tuesday, October 18, 2011 - link

    I'm not sure of all the specifics of how the PS3 manages this, but I do know modding INF files for additional support on consumer electronics is nothing new. Everything from getting HD sound to work on ATI cards, modifying AVR resolutions, or getting HDMI support for sound cards often require modifying INF files for full support.

    If I had to guess, having an INF database/lookup is to avoid any potential issues if the display is behind an AVR or other device (HDMI switch) that doesn't pass the displays EDID/INF data back to the PC. This allows the user to have support without pulling their hair out from all the headaches that EDID/HDMI handshaking can cause.

    Regardless, there is an open support channel to Nvidia for supplementing 3D TV compatibility without any of the nefarious strings attached that the thread starter insinuated.
    Reply
  • marraco - Monday, October 17, 2011 - link

    Somebody knows how to enable 3D vision on 2D video and 2D applications? (without 3D duplication).

    I own a Samsung 2233RZ, and I want to reduce ghosting for videos and when scrolling on web pages and texts. Nvidia 3D vision reduces ghosting only on 3D, by adding a black screen and reducing the 5ms response time to 2 ms.
    Reply
  • dver - Monday, October 24, 2011 - link

    Until they produce a 3D 27" IPS, LED backlit monitor running at 2560 x 1440 (which would presumably have to run over displayport) I'm not buying into this. I've seen both the 1080p 27" and 23" 3D monitors at trade shows and the TN panels are non starters. They all look awful. Guess I'll be waiting for a long time. Reply
  • Baron Fel - Tuesday, November 29, 2011 - link

    Are you guys going to get the ASUS VG278H for review? Reply
  • mdrejhon - Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - link

    I think nVidia 3D LightBoost 2 is essentially a strobed backlight -- the shorter the strobes, the less motion blur. (Much like CRT). I am building a home-made strobed backlight (Essentially a homemade LightBoost) by hacking a monitor's backlight, and using 250 watts of Epistar LED's that I've already purchased. I'm posting my progress in my BlurBusters Blog at http://www.scanningbacklight.com

    There are several ways to overdrive a monitor backlight:
    - Use overvoltage for short strobes. LED's can be about 3 times brighter if strobed for short periods
    - Use more LED's. (I'm using this method; putting 250 watts of LED in a monitor).

    This will allow me to keep the backlight off 95% of the time (0.5 millisecond impulses per refresh at 8ms per 120Hz refresh -- 120 or 144 strobes per second) -- far better than current LightBoost monitors.
    Reply
  • mdrejhon - Tuesday, November 27, 2012 - link

    Oh, and my page also explains how to achieve zero motion blur in an LCD (i.e. less motion blur in an LCD than a CRT!) -- http://www.scanningbacklight.com/zeromotionblur

    I have posted a link to this AnandTech article on this page!
    Reply

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