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  • ganeshts - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Not only is AMD late to the party, it is trying to come in after closing time!

    With the tablet craze about to take off following the year of the iPad, I am not even sure people want to throw away their money on anything so anaemic and running Windows...
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Boo! Down with the naysayers! I'm honestly not really interested in tablets. They're fun gadgets to show things to people, but typing on them sucks. Add a separate keyboard, and now you're lugging around a laptop equivalent (that's still slower than any netbook, only with a somewhat optimized OS).

    Brazos finally makes netbooks viable as an overall computing platform. 7+ hours of battery life, performance that's substantially better than Atom (particular Atom on its own), and a reasonable cost. Maybe you'll get some decent HTPC setups with Brazos now... though honestly, I think for serious HTPC stuff like you test, you'll need something clocked quite a bit higher than the E-350's 1.6GHz.
    Reply
  • StevoLincolnite - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I concur, I'm not interested in tablets running a mobile OS and ARM either.
    I've actually got myself a convertible netbook running Windows 7, I use it more in a laptop mode than a tablet mode.
    I've got friends with an iPad and they say crazy things like: "It's changed my life!" (Really? It's just an over-sized iPod.)

    The annoying part about Tablets I find is how bloody awkward they are to hold when you are sitting at something like a table where they can't hold themselves up and typing is well... Slow.

    I say bring on Fusion, more performance at the low end is a good thing, just wish these manufacturers would start putting decent screens in mobile PC's.
    Reply
  • mgl888 - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    +1

    Tablets feel more like amusement devices at the moment. Without a keyboard and your standard applications, you really can't get much "work" done.
    Reply
  • Rick83 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    A 5 inch tablet is so much more carryable and hence useable than a netbook, it's not even funny. The only netbook that really is worth any consideration is the insanely priced sony Z/V/P? series...the one with the 1600x768 screen.
    Cheap computing isn't really worth the trouble...
    And as long as I need a separate bag to carry my on-the-go computer, it's really a no-go.
    Reply
  • Visual - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Eh? A 5 inch tablet is almost insignificantly more usable than my 4 inch phone. It is redundant. Reply
  • Rick83 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Actually, 5 inch is quite a bit larger than the 4" phone. It is the largest universally pocketable size I found, and I actually have a non-smart-phone (S40 based) so that some software issue won't shut me out from telephony (bodged firmware update still did exactly that even on the S40....) and so that I wont have to hold a giant screen thing to my ear, and have access to my organizer/internet while on the phone....
    Plus, my 5" tablet has suport for keyboard via bluetooth or usb, it has a mini-hdmi output which goes up to 720p, all of which is quite hard to find on a 4" phone.
    And the screen surface is almost 50% larger. (20% in the diagonal should be 44% of the area) This makes reading much more comfortable. Also, the relaxed size and lack of 3G allow a higher power envelope for the SoC resulting in better performance.
    Reply
  • acsa - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Amusement? It is very annoying to hold a tablet all the time during playing, movie watching, browsing, reading while sitting on any comfortable furniture. Even a 5 lbs brick on the lap is better. But even for sharing anything with others (also working thogether), while sitting at a desktop, a "standing-up" netbook/notebook is still much more comfortable. Of course, the are specific areas where the interface itself is very useful but at recent stage of software services I don't see many. And partial it is useful for portability if you have a lot of other luggage always carrying with you by foot. But that's again rare. Maybe where lack of cars and public transport is significant ;) Reply
  • FunBunny2 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Until "pickable" apps are written for tablets, they won't really do much. The issue is whether developers will figure out how to data model "pickable" apps. RDBMS will do that, but most developers aren't smart enough. Reply
  • Powerlurker - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    That's probably true, but I don't see how that's too big of a problem. Most consumers don't go home and type reports in their free time. Reply
  • Dex1701 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    So...typing reports is the only advantage a netbook has over current-generation tablets? I can't see how someone could think that's true unless the only thing they use a computing device for outside of work is basic web browsing or MP3 listening. Reply
  • ganeshts - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    What about those tablet-laptop hybrids? For on-the-go computing, I still would like something more powerful than Atom level performance.

    From looking at 2 generations of Atom, I think the problem with x86 is that whenever the architects target low power, they reduce the performance so much that is is no longer a good experience with Windows.

    The reason I am 'hyping' up tablets is that it gets rid of the Windows OS altogether. (Another reason why I think Windows 7 slates and tablets are going to be DoA). The moment consumers see Windows, they expect a minimum level of performance which is sorely lacking in the Atom class CPUs.

    Btw, I would like to get an idea of how much the nettop / netbook market has gone down since the hyped up 2008 days... I don't even see Intel's CedarView getting much coverage now.. It is probably going to be restricted to embedded SKUs.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Don't forget that a big problem with Atom netbooks is that the inexpensive models most people purchased only had 1GB RAM, which is simply not enough for Windows 7 (or Vista) -- though it was "okay" in XP netbooks. The HD 6310 is about 10X (20X even) better than the GMA 950/3150 in Atom, and the E-350 is more than twice the speed of single-core Atom (and still 50% faster than dual-core Atom in most cases). Heck, Vivek even has a C-50 model in hand and I played with it briefly yesterday. It certainly felt faster than netbook Atom, even at 1.0GHz (but I'm not sure if it has 1GB or 2GB).

    The problem is, in ditching the Windows OS you also ditch all of the applications made for Windows. If you're on a smartphone or tablet, I can understand that. Move to a full laptop, though, and even if netbooks are slow I'd still rather have my standard applications and not dumbed-down (or non-existent) versions. Brazos is really what the second generation of netbooks (after the first Eee PC with the old 600MHz underclocked Celerons) should have been. Atom was a bad design (because of the crippled IGP) from the start, and all it really succeeded in doing is giving a lot of people a really poor impression of netbooks.
    Reply
  • Visual - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    "Windows 7 slates and tablets are going to be DoA"
    No they won't. Or rather, weren't. Because they've been out and about for years now, and though not a huge success, they aren't dead either. They've been a niche product because the performance just wasn't there before, and the price was high, but time improves both of those aspects.

    Today, finally, a tablet convertible, or maybe even better a pure slate combined with a wireless keyboard with a touchpad can have a great performance and run Windows and all the apps and games for it quite well, at an affordable price. Once such a device is released, it will spell the end of all non-windows "tablets" that can only run cell-phone applets.

    Take as an example the HP tm2. Performance wise, it was great for its time: a decent CULV CPU way above anything Atom; a great dedicated graphic card on which I've played WoW and EVE Online and Civ V and whatnot; switchable with the integrated intel crap for great whole-day battery life; both finger and pen-enabled touchscreen by Wacom. It wasn't without disadvantages of course, mainly the terrible screen viewing angles, touchpad buttons and a weight a bit on the high side, at least for holding in one hand in tablet mode. But these could be easily overcome now, all while also improving on the good sides that it had. I can't wait for it's update, it will be a great hit.

    I feel windows tablets and slates are up for a good increase in popularity in the next couple years.

    You're right for one thing though, I don't mean devices that are using Atom. Not when low-voltage variants of real CPUs are so much better.
    Reply
  • Conficio - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I own a Windows convertable laptop and I tried to use the tablet portion about for two weeks. The most annoying thing? Each orientation change needed to recalibrate the stylus, so switching between laptop mode and tables was a 1 min exercise. Teh second annoyance. The character by character hand writing recognition, did three characters correctly just to fould the eintire word after the forth. And character correction is a pain.

    And I also realized that you can't just translate the Winodw smoue oriented UI memes into good tablet UI gestures.

    So yes it was dead and I have not heard of any revival of Windows tablet capability.
    Reply
  • Dribble - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Have you actually tried to use windows 7 touch interface? Basically you have to use a pen - it's pretty well unusable with fingers. Even then windows is really designed for mouse+keyboard - anything less and it gets hard to use.

    Given a slick designed-from-the-ground-up to support tablets OS/UI that will be these new android/mac tablets there's no comparison. They will both be very easy to use, feel fast and be dead quiet.

    The windows ones will feel slow (despite having much more processing power), be much harder to use, and be noisy (tablets with no spinning HD and no fans are just so nice in comparison to even a *quiet* windows box).
    Reply
  • jabber - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    So you want a tablet rather than a netbook but you also want something more powerful than Atom?

    Think you need to sit down and think through just what it is you do want.
    Reply
  • Visual - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    You need to stand up and get acquainted with reality. As I posted just above you, a 12" tablet with something more powerful than Atom and even a dedicated graphic card already exists. Meet the year old HP tm2. Reply
  • nitrousoxide - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Try get a tablet below USD 500 that can play 1080p video, do word editing, play modern 3D PC games at medium or low settings(but way better than those on an iPad) before saying that netbook is out of the game. Reply
  • pja - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    "With the tablet craze about to take off following the year of the iPad, I am not even sure people want to throw away their money on anything so anaemic and running Windows..."

    Well I for one considered an iPad and perhaps a wait for an Android alternative but when the rational side of my brain took over I found that I could not justify the cost (AUD1,000 + for the 64 Gb iPad with no phone in Australia). Instead I got myself a Toshiba NB550D which is similar to the HP above (Brazos C-50 rather than E-350 and smaller screen but bigger than an iPad).

    The Toshiba is half the price, has a similar form factor (when folded), uses the same operating system as my desktop PC _AND_ runs all the same applications as my desktop so the new machine learning curve is NIL!

    I'm more than happy with my Windows 7 based anaemic netbook! At least its not just a toy or fashion accessory, it can actually do real work while I'm on the road.

    Regards,
    Peter
    Reply
  • Impulses - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    At the same time, this is cheaper than many tablets AND far more powerful and capable than just about any tablet... It may be anemic compared to a full fledged laptop, but you can get a lot more done on this than on a tablet. Frankly I think the market for this kinda system is larger than the market for tablets...

    IMO, the only people spending $500+ on a tablet are A) wealthy B) people who don't need an actual laptop for work/study C) people who have a big desktop replacement laptop and want something lighter to read, etc. It's just a total luxury item for someone that already has a smartphone and also needs a laptop.

    Maybe I'm just blinded by my own usage habits, but I read a lot on my phone, and when I put it down it's because I want an actual keyboard (so I pick up my netbook), or I need an SD card slot or ample storage space, or I need to do stuff only my desktop can do (gaming, video editing/encoding, etc.). So a tablet's value to me would be pretty much limited to the couch, as a replacement for my phone when I'm watching TV, meh.
    Reply
  • Powerlurker - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Most people, especially if they don't have school-age children, don't use their home computer to do "work". They do their work on an employer provided computer at their place of employment. They use their home computer for general web-browsing/media consumption, email/IM/Skype, and casual gaming. Reply
  • Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Have you heard of Tiny 7? It is a stripped down windows 7 install that fits on one CD. It uses 145MB of RAM. There are many different groups all simultaneously discovering that win7 need not take up much more space or resources than win xp. The UI can be changed pretty easily also. For example, icons can be blown up really big on Windows 7. It is just a matter of getting x86 tablets out there in quantity for cheap. (ie under $200). Once there is a good base of tablets, there would be a whole bunch of hacking and optimizing going on. The only reason it is not happening is because tablet manufacturers are all hellbent on 200%+ markup. There just is no market for $600-$800 tablets, except for dumb yuppies who all bought ipads already. Reply
  • Dex1701 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    No offense, but a comment like that can only come from someone that values a sexy gee-whiz gadget over an actual portable computing device. Tablets are great fun and have their place, but if you actually want to get something done in an acceptable amount of time they don't work. Tablets = low-powered ultra-portable entertainment devices. They're great for some things, but if you want to be productive (even on a personal pursuit such as an artistic hobby) they're extremely limited even compared to a netbook.

    Does it really matter to you that much whether such a device is running MacOS, iOS, Linux, or Windows? Again, a comment like that can only come from someone that's more interested in image than results.
    Reply
  • Griswold - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    I think you're late to reality.

    Atom based netbooks were useless for most work tasks. Same with pretty much all tablets. They're recreational devices, you cant do any meaningful work with it.

    This puppy seems to fill the gap just fine.
    Reply
  • Sabresiberian - Sunday, February 27, 2011 - link

    Tablets are a fad - and talk about anaemic! As soon as people realize how good they look in commercials but how so-so they actually are to use compared to a netbbook or laptop, they'll die out.

    I've said it before - give me a tablet with a hard cover to protect the screen and a decent amount of storage, say 300GB. Oh, wait, that's a laptop, never mind. Or, give me a tablet I can stick in my pocket. Oh, that's a smart phone. I guess I didn't want a tablet computer after all.

    Something about the tablet reminds me of the Etch A Sketch, not sure what . . .

    ;)
    Reply
  • helboy - Thursday, March 10, 2011 - link

    well IMO tablets are for ladies and people who dont like to get their hands dirty ;) ... Reply
  • Gigantopithecus - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Tablets are great for consumption but those of us who produce need a real keyboard, real hard drive, and not to mention, better connectivity than what's offered with the iPad at least.

    I'm waiting for the X120e (love the nipp...err, trackpoint), but I expect its performance will be similar.

    One question, Dustin - is the mini-PCIe slot mSATA enabled? I.e. does it support Intel's Soda Creek SSDs?
    Reply
  • zepi - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I believe that vast majority of computer users are consumers. Most people don't actively generate new content, they merely consume it.

    Thus, for most of the people tablet could very well be The Ideal computer.

    I vaguely remember seeing stats that only 10-20% users actively produce content and that the rest of us just read it. I couldn't find it now, but I suppose that Anandtech forums / comments could be used a quick statistics...

    I wonder how much pure readers does Anandtech have in comparison to users who actually participate in creation of the content? Though I suppose Anandtech is not the site whose users portray the Average Joe that accurately.

    For the entire history of computing, computers have been generated by Creators for Creators. Tablet, feature rich home consoles and internet-enabled televisions might just be a start of an era where most devices are based around consuming content, instead of generating it.

    This applies to Jarred's post also. Anandtech Crew is definitely in the subset of creators, which I believe to be a tiny minority of all people.
    Reply
  • freezervv - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    And you don't see anything wrong with converting the majority of people into consumers, rather than creators? Reply
  • Gigantopithecus - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    "When the internet gave everyone a voice, we discovered how few people were actually worth listening to." Reply
  • Halley - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    In my spare time I enjoy listening to music. Music by youtube - 720 or 1080, please - or by Windows Powerpoint .pps files is better sometimes IMHO. Am I better off with a tablet or with this HP dm1z netbook?
    Reading and replying email must be done, too. Without a keyboard, replying would take more time, I guess.
    Tablets are definitely more portable. It's nice to have both - tablet and netbook - but tablets are too expensive to me. If I can afford, I would have both.
    Reply
  • cyrusfox - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I second this question, is the other mini-PCIe slot msata compatible? Reply
  • nitrousoxide - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I am expecting a Fusion-based netbook with USB 3.0 support, slightly larger screen (12.1 or 13.3 inch) with better display quality and really low noise (as noise is a matter of concern with dm1z), 4GB RAM packed in a form factor lighter than 3.2lbs while charging me no more than USD500. dm1z is not a perfect choice, ASUS 1215B(USB 3.0+overclocking) or MSI U270(USB 3.0) may be better but they are not shipping at this point. One thing I worry about 1215B is upgrade flexibility as 1215N is extremely hard to disassemble so this may be a problem `cuz I want to install an SSD on it. Hope to see more Fusion-based netbook reviews. Reply
  • Impulses - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I'm right there with ya... Gimme USB 3.0 plus maybe a slightly larger battery and/or screen and I'm sold, though I'd take 11.6" over 13.3", 12" would be ideal. I don't even care if it's a pain to disassemble, I did it with my 1st gen Acer netbook (to install an X25-V), I don't mind going thru it again if everything else (ports, screen, noise) is ideal. Neither the dm1z (couple of small compromises, and frankly I don't care for the aesthetics) nor the X120 (somewhat overpriced) have struck that perfect balance so until then I'll stick to my current netbook. Reply
  • QChronoD - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Maybe I'm not the typical gamer, but I wouldn't even bother trying to play something that only gets 15 or 20fps on the lowest settings. Looking to replace my old 1.2GHz C2D machine and want to be able to game a little when I have an hour or two between classes.

    I'm more interested in how it scores on some of the older and less demanding games? I would assume that it can play games from 3-4 years ago much better than the ones that you have benchmarked.

    I don't think we'd need exact numbers, but would it be possible to test this level of machine with some older games and just give us a report on whether they ran smoothly at around medium settings? Maybe also test a few of the more demanding flash games, and possibly minecraft.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I'm working on it with the MSI X370... you'll notice the last paragraph on the gaming page mentions additional testing. HL2 runs okay, though EP2 starts to get sluggish. Quake 4 is another title that runs fine. I figure anything from before that time will also be good, so maybe grab the original Deus Ex (with the enhancement mod) while you're at it. :-) Reply
  • QChronoD - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Sorry Jarred, reading comprehension fail on my part.

    Keep up the good word on your reviews.. definitely the best in the business!
    Reply
  • Powerlurker - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    If you're a gamer, you probably wouldn't be looking at a netbook in the first place. The extra graphics horsepower in Brazos is mostly intended for things like video decoding and Flash acceleration. Reply
  • MonkeyPaw - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I looked at this very netbook at a local store, and I saw that it came with 71 services running from the factory. It's such a disservice what OEMs do to machines. I can't imagine any machine would feel responsive with that much running in the background. Though I am impressed with the 7200rpm drive on a netbook.

    Did you do a clean install for your tests?
    Reply
  • nitrousoxide - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    So first swap the HDD for a value SSD, then do a clean install :) Reply
  • Penti - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Impossible to do without a retail copy of Windows. Or Volume licensed image. You'll have to go trough the trouble cleaning it up yourself if you want to run a legit copy of Windows. Reply
  • shtldr - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    I have an ACER laptop with Win 7 Home Premium x64 OEM and I was able to swap out the drive for an SSD, then re-install the system (from a retail DVD I also own) using the key from the laptop chassis.
    The only pain was - I had to dial some MS phone number and dial in some numbers using the phone's keypad, then hear and write some numbers back to the activation window.
    After doing this, the clean install of Windows reported it was genuine.
    Reply
  • nitrousoxide - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I've seen aother review from engadget with 'only' 6 hours heavy web browsing, wi-fi enabled. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Yes. We test with WiFi, not off of wired Ethernet. We repeatedly load four tabs in IE8 (AnandTech's old home page, MSN.com, Yahoo.com, and my Facebook page). All are saved versions stored on the AT web server, so they always appear the same, complete with Flash advertisements. IE8 is set to clear Temp files on exit, so the pages actually reload over WiFi each cycle of the test. Outside of video playback in YouTube, this is about as stressful as Internet surfing gets in my experience. Reply
  • Stuka87 - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    A net book that I can actually tell people "Yes you can get this model, and it wont be horrible!"

    This is actually a machine I would consider for myself if I didn't already have a MacBook and a Precision M4500. I just can't justify a third mobile machine when the MacBook handles the mobile side well, and the Precision handles the heavy work.
    Reply
  • screamlordbyron - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I've had one of these puppies for three weeks now. I've got to say that calling the dm1z a netbook does it s disservice. It certainly is not mobile gaming rig, but for business productivity, it is a fantastic subnote.

    I use it for word processing, excel, web research, light graphics editing, remote desktop, etc. No stutters, good battery life, good (albeit not excellent) screen, decent track pad, excellent keyboard.

    For anyone but a gamer or graphic artist, who wants a small, light, affordable subnote, this thing is the bomb! :)
    Reply
  • Computer Bottleneck - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Are Tablets here to stay or are they merely a stepping stone ARM is using to get into Desktop/Laptop?

    The Mac Book Air video on the Apple website points to the better ergonomics of a keyboard and Apple's glass trackpad when using a LCD screen oriented in the vertical position.
    Reply
  • Computer Bottleneck - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    My mistake here. I meant this comment to be in response to ganeshts's opening comment. Reply
  • erkerb - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Well, i jumped on the Netbook wagon about 3 years ago, and i am ready for an upgrade. AMD might be late, but remember being late is better then not showing to the fight at all.. Also there is still a demanding market out-there that i do not think AMD would be hurt that much. It'd be nice to see a USB 3.0, but at this price level and platform, it seems like a luxury addition. I would rather see more USB ports though.. I hope Anandtech will also give a shot to Lenovo Thinkpad X120e soon. Reply
  • motomen2 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I am also hoping for a review of the Thinkpad x120e! I am a previos owner of a Thinkpad and if it stacks up well against this one, I plan to buy it.

    Any news on this front?
    Reply
  • JumpingJack - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I thought netbooks were considered to be screen sizes 10 inches or less, this is a bit large to be a 'netbook'. Reply
  • strikeback03 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    "Netbook" seems to be as much in relation to performance as size. There are 12 inch units that can't be considered anything but netbooks given that they use the same internals, just a little larger. So basically if you are looking at an 11.6" screen and Atom, it is a netbook. If it is an 11.6" screen and a C2D, not a netbook. Reply
  • mgl888 - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    Thanks! Been waiting for this one to get reviewed!
    Can't wait for mine to arrive. I can tuck away my N270 Atom. w00t!
    Reply
  • AmdInside - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    At this point in time, I would only be interested in this netbook if I was a college student and couldn't afford a notebook or if I was just too poor to afford a notebook but needed a portable PC for some reason. The netbook craze has died since the iPad. I tried to like netbooks last year but either they were too expensive (and thus approaching notebook pricing) or just too limited. The iPad fill the void I had with a netbook. I just have no desire for this or any other netbook. Reply
  • mgl888 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    It really depends on what you use the device for.

    For me, an ultraportable (not an iPad) like this fills the gap between my desktop and my smartphone. There's no point for me to get a tablet because an Android tablet/iPad would simply be a repeat of everything I can already do with my phone on the go.

    I would not choose a 14"+ notebook because it's just too bulky to carry around and the battery life is usually not as great. I've tried Atoms, but yes they are too slow for my taste. Fusion, on the other hand, fits my taste almost perfectly.

    It would be nice to have better CPU performance and perhaps a slightly larger screen, but this is as close as it gets right now. Perhaps Llano will strike on target?
    Reply
  • DanNeely - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    The first half of the pricing link "Starting at $4" goes to cyberpowerpc, not hp. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Thanks, fixed... and the HP shopping link works properly as well now. Reply
  • Aone - Monday, February 21, 2011 - link

    I would appreciate if the auther have used the proper terms.

    Netbook, as it was introduced by Intel, is 10" box. HP DM1z has 11.6 screen and that is the big difference.

    If AT wants to compare AMD's offering with Intel's one in proper manner i.e. in netbook space he should take C-50 but not E-350. Do it and you feel the big difference!
    Reply
  • cyrusfox - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Markets change and so do terms, Intel didn't create the term by the way. Been around before atom or Asus. They gained the most recognition through the intriguing asus eee 700 and its successors.

    See wiki excerpts below:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netbook

    "The generic use of the term "netbook", however, began in 2007 when Asus unveiled the ASUS Eee PC. Originally designed for emerging markets, the 23 × 17 cm (9.1 × 6.7 in) device weighed about 0.9 kg (2 lb) and featured a 7 in (18 cm) display, a keyboard approximately 85% the size of a normal keyboard, a solid-state drive and a custom version of Linux with a simplified user interface geared towards netbook use."

    "In the short period since their appearance, netbooks have grown in size and features, now converging with new smaller, lighter notebooks. By August 2009, when comparing a Dell netbook to a Dell notebook, CNET called netbooks "nothing more than smaller, cheaper notebooks," noting, "the specs are so similar that the average shopper would likely be confused as to why one is better than the other," and "the only conclusion is that there really is no distinction between the devices.""

    So you can be like engadget and others and call it a notbook if you choose, everything a netbook should be(peppy/versatile with the battery life and size of a netbook).
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    11.6" is close enough to netbook size that I have no issues calling it a netbook. I typically call 11.6" to 13.3" ultraportable, 10.1" and smaller netbook, 14-15.6" laptop, and 16" and larger notebook. However, notebook and laptop are almost terms that reflect the entire category of mobile computer, and netbook can just as easily mean "slower, smaller, and with good battery life" as it can "less than 10 inches". Reply
  • The Crying Man - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    I thought 10" and under was a Microsoft restriction with regards to which edition of Windows OEMs could install. In the case of netbooks, they could only install Starter. Which is why I think HP, in another review, insisted that this isn't a netbook. Reply
  • Zoridon - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I bought my wife a ASUS 1000HE about 2 years ago. It came with a atom 280 1.66 ghz processor, 160 gig hard drive, intel onboard graphics and 1 gig of ram for about $380. It had a 10.1 inch 1024x600 screen and bluetooth. My compliants were many and I tried to warn her it would feel slugish after loading xp, antivirus, itunes, and whatever else she found to install. It will now serve as my bitorrent client machine because thats all its really good for, or watching whenever I find myself on a plane.

    Complaints:

    1. Screen does not quite fit an entirew webpage so I have to scroll = wasted time
    2. No gaming ability what so ever
    3. Lack of flash support
    4. Sluggish windows performance once you get a few programs running

    This system blows it away in every aspect. Battery life is almost as good,

    1. duel core processor that is 50 percent faster per core.
    2. twice as much ram or triple as HP has offered
    3. Modern windows OS
    4. twice the hard drive space and not 5400 rpm
    5. flash card reader built in
    6. The screen is over an inch and a half larger with enough pixes to fit an entire web page
    7. full size keyboard
    8. Easy access to inner parts for do it yourself upgrades (RAM, Hard Drive)

    All in all this is a hell of a improvement. If I were in the market to buy a computer for mobile use right now I'd buy this in a heartbeat. I can't wait till they go to 2nd generation and upgrade the processor speed to at least 2 ghz and incrementally improve the graphics and add USB 3. Did I mention bluetooth 3.0? I may even suggest the Army take a look at these systems for the SIPR machines (Secret) since we are not allowed to use uptical drives on those systems anyway. MIght as well remove them and have admins have some externals handy for a case by case need.
    Reply
  • duploxxx - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    well at least it is available now in some EU parts.

    large consumer electronic vendors offer now the dm1z with 3gb ram and 320gb hd for approx 380eur, not that bad at all.
    Reply
  • Arnulf - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    "Jarred's working on some additional gaming tests for his E-350 review"

    Once again I implore you to run some older game titles (from 2005 or thereabouts) that Fusion should be able to run at satisfactory FPS rates. Pick the titles that you used as your benchmarks back then so that your readers can see what's actually playable on Fusion platform.

    Sub 20 FPS scores in modern games mean nothing (except to masochists perhaps), you've made it clear Fusion is incapable of running any modern game so please take some more time to show us what it *CAN* run.
    Reply
  • Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    And dont forget League of Legends. (max settings) Reply
  • pafnucy - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I have waited for Anand's review of dm1z with anticipation. I am quite disappointed, honestly.

    1. dm1z ships with HP CoolSense application for balancing noise vs temperature of the system. By wiping the HDD clean and then complaining about the fan noise the reviewer not only displays laziness but also disinforms the readers.

    2. Other websites mentioned that the HDD performance is underwhelming. Here, the reviewer instead of running e.g HD Tune for 5 minutes just assumes that it's fast because it ships with a fast drive. For an entirely new platform, especially one that cuts corners to achieve low power consumption, it seems crucial to be wary of potential performance problems.

    3. The entire review doesn't even mention sound quality. Are the Lantec speakers any good? What about the audio chip? Is it a part of the platform or something entirely different? 92HD81B1X does not tell me anything at all.

    4. The whole point of Fusion on netbooks was to provide a way of using GPU cores to accelerate certain applications and not to play games. And there are more and more application capable of taking advantage of that. What about testing for example Firefox 4 beta (http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-accelera... CPU usage numbers when video (flash or h264) is played wouldn't hurt either.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Sorry, but several of your points are not accurate. We do not generally do clean installs on laptops; we uninstall useless programs (you know: McAfee, Norton, TrendMicro, and the various tools that don't do anything other than delay the boot speed and pop up at annoying times). The default install was tested, but probably without the HP Support Assistant active (I find that "tool" rather annoying, just like the Lenovo, Dell, etc. equivalents). It was found to be somewhat noisy compared to other laptops, but I've asked Dustin to check results for temps/noise with CoolSense active.

    As for the HDD, sure, a WD Black is underwhelming relative to SSDs, but compared to the 160GB and 250GB 5400RPM drives found in most netbooks, I can guarantee it does better. HD Tune is a nice synthetic test of HDD performance, but it's not going to cover everything. Finally, this is our first Fusion laptop, and we're working on reviews of others; I'll take a look at some of the other elements you mention in point four in the future. But I can say that 720p Flash video works fine (I haven't checked 1080p yet).

    Dustin will have to respond to the sound comment, but if it's like other laptops I've used I expect it is at best serviceable. Anyway, thanks for the feedback; I wish HP would have put the CoolSense into the BIOS rather than in a separate software tool.
    Reply
  • Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Unfortunately I no longer have the unit on hand as I had to send it back.

    That said, the sound quality seemed pretty decent but you have to remember these are laptop speakers: if speaker quality isn't explicitly stated it's reasonable to assume it's the same middling laptop audio we've come to know and tolerate.

    If other websites are underwhelmed by HDD performance, I honestly don't know what would placate them other than an SSD. As far as mechanical drives go, the Scorpio Black is among the fastest. I actually did do some testing on a clean install of Windows and I was amazed at just how snappy the dm1z actually was.
    Reply
  • chiadog - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    So the netbook we've been waiting for is too thick, too heavy, and too slow. No thanks. I like the old HP mini's more than this. I rather carry a real notebook at this weight than a half neutered computer. Reply
  • Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    There was a 200 post thread on slickdeals that showed how you could get this notebook for around $400. Some people were even getting it under $400. I dont know if you still can though. Reply
  • Wieland - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    It's definitely not available anymore, but I was lucky enough to jump on while it lasted. I got one for $352.99 including taxes and shipping after cashback with no payments due for six months through BillMeLater. I finally have a replacment for my Travelmate 8006lmi. Reply
  • jrs77 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Can you load a copy of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and see if it works?

    I'd rather not have a bloated OS like Win7 on a netbook.
    Reply
  • MrVeedo - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    i thought i read the dm1z was shipping with ddr3 1066 memory? does the platform indeed run at 1333? Reply
  • xavier78 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    HP lists the webcam as VGA, not 1.3MP. Do they now offer that as an option to upgrade? Reply
  • Quixote One - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I agree that the new Brazos version of the dm1z is a slick little machine. The deal-breaker for me is the lack of the most current, higher-speed data-transfer interfaces -- an especially egregious omission in a netbook/"notbook"-class machine without an on-board optical drive. Other machines in this class have had either USB 3.0 or eSATA ports (and often both) for a year or more now as pretty standard features.

    If HP rolls out a follow-up model at around the same price point with at least one or the other (and hopefully, a less dismal screen), I'm there in a heartbeat.
    Reply
  • darkhawkff - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I think you're seriously mistaken on many comments here. I don't see this AMD Brazos platform as being any better than what's been out for a year plus.

    HP Mini 311 does as well as this netbook does, and it's been out for well over 1.5 years now. How is this a step up?

    Just a word of advice, look at the whole netbook scene before making an article. Even the Asus 1215N is similar in performance in most respects. There again, how is this giving people the 'netbook they've been waiting for'? It isn't. It's a side grade from AMD, if you don't like the evil powers of Intel/NVidia.

    Plain and simple, stop leaning towards AMD. The only real advantage I see, is the price. It's probably a little bit cheaper than the Intel/NVidia solution, which you barely make mention of.

    Overall, I see this article as a "Look what AMD did! You should buy it!", when comparable performing machines have been around for quite a while (my Mini 311 cost $700 1.5 years ago....when this was cutting edge).
    Reply
  • Taft12 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    The last bit you said in brackets is why this is a notable machine. Netbook performance that cost $700 just 18 months ago is now $449 (or ~$400 on some slickdeals post) thanks to integrating all the discrete components that were needed on that platform (CPU/northbridge/southbridge/PCIE bus/graphics chip). Battery life also benefits greatly from this as you would expect

    Apparently the netbook segment isn't as slow-moving as everyone thought!
    Reply
  • darkhawkff - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I think you missed the point. We could do this 18 months ago, and still achieve the same relative performance. Yes, it cost more 18 months ago, but that's how technology works. As time progresses, prices decrease for the same performance. The idea though, was that Fusion would be a big increase in netbook performance. So, where's my increase? It's not there, and thats the point. This article made it seem like this was an increase compared to whats out there. It's not, which is my point. Another thing of note, Ion is based on the 9000 series NVidia chips, so Fusion (ie 5400 series product) is only comparable to a 4 generation old competitor? As I said, the article makes this sound as if it's a new and exciting product. It's new, but it's not exciting, and it doesn't increase performance. The only thing this has going for it, is price. If NVidia could put a chipset out for Ion, this would be irrelevant when it comes to 'netbook performance'. Plain and simple. Reply
  • joe4324 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    its not cheaper even, ION on a 11.6" screen was $399 16 months ago... This is coming out at the same price I thought? Reply
  • balancedthinking - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    first of all, the mini 311 has only an N270

    the E-350 has more than twice the cpu power (cinebench etc.) and it was a hassle to work with an N270, an E-350 works almost like a normal laptop, office etc. quick and responsive. Multitasking, no problem.

    Thats a huge difference and it does so with higher battery life and a lower price.

    So what is so special about brazos? It beats hands down everything Intel/Nvidia have to offer right now in this mobile market space and that is a 1st for AMD.

    Better performance, geat battery life and great price. Ther is no point in buying an atom anymore.
    Reply
  • joe4324 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    This even looks just like my HP Mini 311, Infact I bet its the same Chassis at least. I love seeing this ultra-portable market advance but HP really turned me sour and I will steer clear of them forever at any price point.

    If this machine suffers from the same flaws my Mini 311 did please be warned!

    HP refused to service mine in anyway 72 days after warranty despite it basically falling apart. I paid $500 for my Mini 311. To keep yourself from falling into the same boat as me watch out for this:

    1) Fan if the fan makes *any* weird noise at all even once, And or it runs continuously have it serviced or at least file a request. My fan started to die in less than a year but I limped along just past my warranty date then it completely died. I can find no replacement for less than an $65...

    2) My speakers quit a couple weeks after the warranty, The audio jack works but not the speakers.

    3) Check the temp sensor in the Bios, Mine had a bad habit of turning back on, or continuing to run when I thought it was in standby and if I was not diligent it would have overheated inside of backpacks cases etc.

    I work in computer repair and I feel like I'm one of the best people to get stiffed with a dying computer as I have a lot of resources to fix it, but even then I feel like I am out almost $500 and HP showed zero signs of desire to help me out.

    Unless they make it right I'm going to continue advocating a different brand. I see HP Dv6000's come into my work everyday with similar problems. I think HP is the most repaired/Dead laptops we see. Sony/IBM being the best. This is just a observation.
    Reply
  • joe4324 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I forgot to mention, in 15 months my batter life went from 4.5 hours to 20 minutes also... Reply
  • tammlam - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I bought one of these for my wife and everything was going well for the first 3 weeks until this past weekend. Turned it on and all we got was a bunch of distorted, horizontal lines. The screen periodically went dark as well. Once in a while, it clears up and the screen looks normal but this didn't last long. Now it is waiting to be picked up for repair and hopefully everything will work the way it should.

    Besides this glitch, it is a very nice notebook and I removed most of the preloaded programs. Got it down to 50 processes.
    Reply
  • AlohaMike - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Once again I am disappointed in HP. I keep WANTING to buy an HP and they keep forgetting to put a HOME and an END key on their netbooks. So I bought an Acer from Costco. Nothing fancy but I can type with it. Reply
  • Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Fn+Left Arrow is Home, Fn+Right Arrow is End. They're there, they just aren't marked. Reply
  • silverblue - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    ...a 2GHz Brazos. :) Unfortunately, I still think that whilst a faster CPU would help, the single-channel memory interface is choking it. Reply
  • swaaye - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    That's a horribly slow subnote, not a netbook. Reply
  • swaaye - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    That's a super slow subnotebook, not a netbook. You could've gotten something like this 2-3 years ago. Reply
  • mino - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    You could have got something like this 4 yrs ago. For $2000+.

    Game. Set. Match.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    Funny thing is that I even reviewed something like that:
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2503/2

    $2000 ($2600 with a 1st-gen SSD) and you were still saddled with Intel's GMA X3100. Look at the performance scores in 3DMark03-06 and PCMark05; heck, it even has Cinebench 10 results in there. So today you get roughly the same performance as the old Core 2 Duo U7500, with six times the graphics performance, and about twice the relative battery life, all for one-fifth the price. That's a pretty good advancement for only three years!
    Reply
  • swaaye - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I think that in a 11.6" form factor you can do better. With this thing you're plunking down a good amount of money for some very basic performance. and GMA X3100 is not that much of an issue for most people. But if price is all that matters, sure this is a decent choice I suppose.

    I'd rather see Brazos used in a 9" netbook, myself. Really take advantage of its low power consumption and heat output.
    Reply
  • Penti - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    You can, but not for 449 USD. Rember Atom netbooks costs as much if not more when they come with W7HP and Crystal HD accelerator. Especially if you want a bigger battery then some anemic 3-cell. There's even no need to special order this (bto). If you go down to ridiculous small batteries, there's literally not much of a point of it. If you want something like a ULV or normal Core i5 in it you will have to pay 250 USD just for the CPU, add 40 USD for chipset. Add in TFT-panel, motherboard pcb and associated components, wireless, hdd, battery, keyboard, touchpad, memory and case(charger etc) and it's already at about 750 for the cheapest possible configuration. Probably 800 in real world. I.e another product. Built in support for basics (today) such as H.264 and H.264 flash video acceleration is key here. Not that you almost can game on it. It replaces the dualcore higher end atom netbooks and makes them obsolete. With this setup your high-def online videos works, no matter if it's flash or netflix Sliverlight. Not so much on netbooks with atom, even with the Crystal HD accelerator. Adobe has real problems with those kinds of platforms till they have moved over to a real video oriented workflow like they are trying to do with stage video api. It solves todays needs.

    Hell it's even fast enough to do high res software decoded H.264 with CoreAVC. It's pretty important because you can't always muck about and reencode files and reencoding files takes a long time.

    This is about filling and meeting the needs of the low-end. AMD can keep TSMC busy with these I suppose.
    Reply
  • swaaye - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    I just dumped a HP 12.1" from 2009 which had a Turion Neo X2 1.6 GHz (faster than Brazos) with a discrete Radeon 3450. The Turion was not exactly snappy and the 3450 was pretty sad overall. It was passable yes, but not really impressive. I got it as a factory refurb for $450 but they retailed for around $800. Reply
  • silverblue - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    There's a couple of differences. Brazos supports more instruction sets as well as a faster IMC (albeit single channel). The performance difference should be slight, if anything. Reply
  • swaaye - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    According to another look at Brazos here on Anandtech, an Athlon 64 X2 at 1.5 GHz can be over 20% faster per clock in some applications. That's not slight. Sometimes they are similar, but then other times you see 20% slower which is quite ugly. A 1.5 GHz Athlon 64 X2 is already very slow. Reply
  • swaaye - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    I shouldn't have said per clock. The comparison was an Athlon 64 X2 1.5 GHz vs. Brazos 1.6 GHz. Reply
  • fshaharyar - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    The build up to the fusion was very good. But I'd like to say they late by 6 months to the party.

    If they had intrudoced this product to the market 6 months back it would have stolen the Intel thunder and their would have been a huge shakeup in the netbook market.

    But still not taking anything away from their success we will see better alternatives in the mobile market with this teck piece.

    AMD will have ensure that they refresh there current gen proc. every 8-9 months.
    with regards to their GPU refresh as well as plan their CPU strategy.
    Reply
  • Hal2011 - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    NBS=No Glossy Club

    Would love a new, little portable but waiting till manufacturers figure out that glossy screens are absolute crap. They are only there to hide the poor screen quality and to look good in the shop. Even on a cloudy day outside the local coffee shop, you still only look in a mirror. Hey, a mirror is more portable if I needed one! A small notebook is made to be used all over the place but these can't. Am I the only one?
    Reply
  • cosmotic - Tuesday, February 22, 2011 - link

    "The only thing that hurts about using the dm1z, really, is the amount of bloatware it ships with from HP."

    "The only major dents in the dm1z's armor are the poor screen and constantly running fan."

    "The only fly in the ointment is that while the E-350 is a step up, it's a long overdue one and it's not quite the huge one we needed." … "but we don't need more cores in the E-350; we need faster ones."

    Sound's more like three problems instead of one.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    "only thing that hurts about using [it]" is separate from "only major dents [i.e. in the build quality/design]". I took out the last only for you, though. :) Reply
  • mgl888 - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    x120e is out.
    Any thoughts?
    I'm considering cancelling my dm1z order and getting a thinkpad instead
    Reply
  • The Crying Man - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    I read somewhere that the only reason you'd get the x120e is for the matte screen, nipple mouse, and overall look since it runs warmer and has a slightly lower battery life compared to the dm1z. Reply
  • nitrousoxide - Wednesday, February 23, 2011 - link

    Whenever there is an article about Fusion APUs and praising how great it is, Intel fanboys begin to compare it to CULV, and Apple fanboys stand out to say netbook is out of the game and iPad saves the world. Reply
  • swaaye - Thursday, February 24, 2011 - link

    What do you compare it to? You make it sound like it shouldn't be compared to the competition. And, perhaps this hasn't occurred to you yet, but everyone has different preferences. Reply
  • Wieland - Friday, February 25, 2011 - link

    I find passive aggressive comments like nitrousoxide's just as annoying as the comparisons he mentions, but the issue is that the CULV laptops and iPads aren't the competition of this laptop at all. The cheapest CULV laptops are still quite a bit more expensive than the dm1z, and models with similar fit and finish are around twice the price. The iPad is completely different in form and function.

    It's apparent from nitrousoxide's comment that he understands that people have different preferences. The question is why does everyone feel the need to shout their personal preferences to the world.

    "Happiness is never grand."
    Reply
  • CutControl - Saturday, May 14, 2011 - link

    There's a new f.12 bios that tweaks fan to be much less of an issue! Reply
  • blueboy11 - Sunday, November 06, 2011 - link

    This netbook is the ideal area where it needs to be before Llano makes it debut. Seeing that I only use a computer nowadays for viewing podcast videos in Google Reader along with a little of Youtube, and connect the HDMI on my 32 inch tv, this would be ideal for me. I rarely use my DVD-RW drive, and ironically use more USB sticks for temporary storage, although I could use a 1TB external drive as well for music, videos, etc. I'm not saying this is the netbook king by any means, but a step ahead in the right direction for people who don't need all the flashy features that a laptop offers nowadays. Just my 2 cents on the subject at hand. Thanks for the review Anand, cause this netbook I'll be getting in the nearby future for sure. Reply

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