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  • oldbriones - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Glaringly missing in display evaluation is any mention of the viewing angle. Anandtech probably knows that the supposedly "Pro" models have cheap TN LCD type thus resulting in crappy viewing angles. I expect Anandtech to educate its readers about availability of better screens so that manufacturers will respond to the market demand. Reply
  • Zok - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Good point, but when was the last time you've seen a laptop not sporting a TN LCD? Reply
  • Penti - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Only tablet-PCs don't and they are only on IPS-based tech since recently and in smaller sizes, as far as I'm aware of there is no 15" low power laptop panel in existence or being manufactured. They can't use something that aren't manufactured, and a display like that isn't in the catalogs of the Korean and Taiwanese panel manufacturers and are frankly out of most of theirs capability. Many of them simply don't make any IPS screens at all. Haven't seen PVA panels in those sizes and power envelope or anywhere near.

    IPS screens in devices like iPad was unheard of before LG put one together for Apple and hard to imagine. As netbooks and low cost devices use TN panels and e-readers use reflective technology.

    Every photoguy knows the macbooks screens aren't worth a shit and that they need a calibrated external screen for referencing and work. So I hope it doesn't come as a surprise to anybody. The MBP screens aren't worse then any others. But it's still pretty useless for a lot of things. Any way that's what the review of monitors is for. They have done more detailed reviews of laptop screens too, but they only confirm that they are horrible. I'm pretty sure also that the screens for high-end tablet PCs isn't that good when it comes to color accuracy their usage is for viewing angles. And that isn't everything.
    Reply
  • Penti - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    And when I say based on IPS (IPS-based) I mean AFFS panels. They exist for up to 14". They are actually 262k color panels, while they have good viewing angles though. LG haven't invented a unique macbook screen yet. Reply
  • BlendMe - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Now that Apple is shipping the iPad and iPhone 4 with IPS panels it might not take to long till they move the tech up to their MacBook line. The iMac already have it but they're not power limited like laptops. Reply
  • ksherman - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    "Every photoguy knows the macbooks screens aren't worth a shit..."

    That all depends. if you shoot in AdobeRGB, yeah you would be left wanting. I shoot almost exclusively in sRGB because that's what everyone seems to want anyway. As such, near 80% coverage of the AdobeRGB spectrum works just fine.

    The bigger problem is an uncalibrated display. Calibrate the display and it will get you close enough in almost ever situation.

    Of course though, it always depends on your medium/use for the pictures. I shoot for newspapers. They compress the details right out of the pictures online and the half-tone process kills and color correction or detail anyway.

    If I shot for a magazine, it might be a different story. I'd have a lot more money and probably wouldn't be editing and transmitting from my car more often than not.

    Anyway, I love my (first gen) unibody 15" MacBook Pro, but I'm lusting after the matte high-res display and awesome battery life.
    Reply
  • bji - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    What an interesting job you must have compared to those of us who sit in front of a computer in a cubicle all day ... Reply
  • rpottol - Monday, June 14, 2010 - link

    IPS were dropped from the Thinkpads because they could no longer be obtained in the quantities that they needed them, Apple would need them in far greater quantities (given that they were only on a few high end Thinkpads, as opposed to what apple ships).

    We may long after them, but for now, we are stuck with the cast offs from the TV market.
    Reply
  • oldbriones - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    It was only a few years ago (granted that is a long time in tech-years) that there were beautiful high quality IPS LCD options on laptops such as IBM/Lenovo T43, T60, etc. Lately most consumers got seduced into cheap but seriously compromised (display-wise) machines, and then suffer afterward searching for that elusive head and body tilt to view the movie at. Then again, many people probably don't even know what they are missing. Reply
  • Stokestack - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    The asinine glossy screen is a much bigger defect. What is with Apple's continued ignorance on this matter? I'm using a MacBook Pro with a glossy screen right now, and it is abysmal in ALL lighting conditions. From a pitch-dark room to a sunny office.

    To charge extra for a matte option on the other two MBPs is bad enough, but then they don't even offer it on the computer that's most likely to leave the house and be used in a variety of lighting. There's no excuse, because the size of the computer has nothing to do with this feature.

    Sad.
    Reply
  • runebinder - Saturday, June 26, 2010 - link

    Huh? I have a glossy screen too, abysmal is certainly not a word I'd associate with it. I'm sitting in a brightly lit room atm and having no issues with the screen at all. In a pitch dark room it's great. Yes the colours may be more accurate on the matte, however I much prefer the glossy, the contrast ratios are better and everything looks more vivid.

    If yours looks that bad I suggest you get it looked at as it sounds defective.
    Reply
  • Aenslead - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Another rather irrelevant review of an outdated, expensive, fruit-themed, fanboi toy that still cannot convince me to try it over an ASUS or CLEVO notebook.

    That's all I have to say. Have a nice one.
    Reply
  • mathias_mm - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Seriously, I wish people like you could just get banned. Why do you care to comment on the article if you have nothing constructive to say? It really is just flamebaiting, and everyone knows the Mac users will never stop using Macs because of crap like that, just like it's quite apparent you'll never even try a Mac. Reply
  • Aenslead - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    It's my opinion and I'm entitled to express it as I see fit. I'm an avid AT reader and I will share my thoughts whenever I want, however I want, regardless of what you think. And the fact that you replied means it wasn't an irrelevant comment for you. :)

    I as well have been reading AT since it began, and don't quite fancy how now every 5/10 reviews are somehow Apple related.

    And yes, I will never get a Mac.
    Reply
  • mathias_mm - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Okay, maybe I overreacted with the whole banning thing. I'm just sick and tired of this endless flaming it always ends up with, and it always starts with someone writing fanboi or whatever, in a comment saying "I'll never have none of that" or something else that means nothing. Why is that discussion so important to so many people? Is it a matter of pride to support x company instead of y?
    And that is why i decided to comment. The comment itself remains irrelevant, but the tone and the purpose of it (or at least the effect it usually has), is relevant if you value a meaningful discussion in the comments. Which i do.

    I also fail to see how the amount of time you've been here is relevant at all. I've been reading the site for what i guess must be around the same time, some times more often than others, but that doesn't mean i can come here and post whatever. And if Anand prefers to write more about Macs, too bad for you, I really doubt he ever started the site for you in the first place.

    And I will also state you should try a Mac seriously some time. I'm not saying buy one, but try t out somehow. Can it ever hurt? :)
    Reply
  • Aenslead - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    Totally agree. I do not think someone like Anand would care to please me - he is bright enough to do whatever he pleases with HIS site, which, I must say, is the one I fully trust in reviews and comments.

    My post was not meant to be productive, constructive or helpful at all - it was a rant. I complained about something I didn't like. Sort of like "why do women get PMS?!"

    I've gone through hell with Mac's, honestly. The business I own provides support for Mac and PC users alike - my latest fight was trying to get a conventional cablemodem-router network to work with a MacBook Pro, a 27" iMac, and some PCs. the MBP kept acquiring 189.170.xx.xx addys, whereas the DHCP was enabled and configured to 192.168.1.xx - setting it manually helped, but it did not enable discovery of the MBP, and could not configure a Calendar program to share schedule with the rest of the PCs.

    I found them less intuitive, more complicated, hardly friendly-user than even a Windows 95 PC.

    I have a PowerMac G4 and a 15" MBP (GF8500, C2D) at the office for software testing and I even tried once or twice to use them as my main working machines, but failed. Linux-failure type, you know? "It's cool, but... I just don't find my way through it".

    Maybe I'm a PC fanboi. Maybe it's what I enjoy the most, besides ranting. I will take a Core i5 Alienware M11x ANY DAY over this Mac.
    Reply
  • B3an - Friday, June 11, 2010 - link

    Aenslead, i totally agree with you.

    And i think Apple in general get way more press and coverage than they deserve, especially on yank sites.

    Also do not like how Anand always seems to be a little bias when reviewing Apple gear, he does not point out obvious floors like he would in other hardware reviews.
    Reply
  • zer0sum - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Maybe put a little more thought into your opinion next time...
    The last ten Anandtech reviews are as follows:

    HTC EVO 4G
    MBP 13
    Acer Ferrari One
    OSX Steam performance
    AVADirect Clevo W860CU
    Value SSD Roundup
    ASrock X58
    HP ZR30w LCD
    Asus U30Jc
    Nvidia GTX465

    Throw in at least 3-4 other stories about Asus Computex, Eee Pad and tablet as well.
    Hell, they haven't even mentioned the iphone 4 yet!!

    Whilst you might find an Asus or a clevo more to your liking a lot of people buy a 13" MBP pro because it has some truly impressive features over other brands

    Design, dimensions, weight, build quality, battery life, operating system, trackpad and gestures, firewire800, applications, etc.

    For reference I have a new 13" MBP, a 2008 15" MBP and a new MSI GX640.
    There is no perfect laptop for me and they all have their pros and cons obviously...
    Reply
  • Johnmcl7 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Agreed - for a technical site there's an awful lot of Apple coverage even when there's little to write about while genuinely innovative and more technologically advanced machines are ignored. Specifically I'm surprised the site has never covered the new Sony Z series - Sony have managed to do what Apple claim isn't possible by having up to an i7 processor in a 13in chassis with an Nvidia GT 330m that's smaller and lighter than the 13in Apple Macbook as well as pack in *four* SSDs and packing a 1080p display. Despite all the power it packs, its hybrid graphics setup allows for long batterylife, it also offers an extended battery. I think there's a lot to benchmark and test there particularly the likes of Trim support and general performance of the quad SSDs. Reply
  • Tros - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    Care to mention a model number? I can only find the 13-inch Vaio VPCZ1190X on Sony's website, which comes with NONE of those features, except for a disclaimed 7.5-hour battery life. If you halved pretty much all of those specs and got rid of the GT330m, that matches the Vaio VPC1190X.

    And innovative? Not really. A keyboard backlight is innovative (and Sony was beaten to the punch by a few years). Auto-adjusting screen brightness is innovative (IIRC, Alienware did this a long time ago). Utilizing an accelerometer to shutdown HDDs before crash-impact is innovative (credit to IBM ThinkPads). The multi-touch finger gestures are innovative (first saw this in X11). Switching to a LLVM compiler to transparently take advantage of GPGPU power when it's magnitudes faster/efficient than CPU computation is innovative (Apple). This Vaio laptop? This is doubling transistors among of a sea of manufacturers that believe doubling transistors is the only way to make a better PC. The 13-inch MBP gets special attention for the innovations it brings to the tech-world, while nearly all PC manufacturers depend heavily on CPU-upgrades to sell their machines. More power to AT for focusing on innovations, rather than every variant of laptop that has a few hundred more megahertz.
    Reply
  • Johnmcl7 - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    "Care to mention a model number? I can only find the 13-inch Vaio VPCZ1190X on Sony's website, which comes with NONE of those features, except for a disclaimed 7.5-hour battery life. If you halved pretty much all of those specs and got rid of the GT330m, that matches the Vaio VPC1190X.
    "

    The model in the UK is the VPCZ11Z9E/B (probably a different number in the US) and has the spec I mentioned above:

    Core i7-620m @ 2.66Ghz (3.33Ghz maximum)
    6GB ram
    256GB quad SSD (4 x 64GB)
    DVD+-RW (BD-R/RW drive optional)
    13.1in 1920x1080 screen
    Nvidia GT 330M + Intel integrated graphics
    Onboard WWAN
    1.4kg carbon fibre chassis

    Having read through the article I can't see what innovations this Macbook brings at all, in fact it inherits many of its features from older Vaio machines (although people tend to falsely credit Apple as Sony simply don't market their innovations well enough). The Vaio Z11 on the other has a specification which exceeds even the 17in Macbooks yet remarkably it's smaller and a kilo lighter than the 13in Macbook which has a signficantly lower spec. To be able to produce such a small and lightweight machine in itself is impressive but to be able to pack in features such as discrete graphics cards and quad SSDs is extremely innovative particularly when you compare it to the competition.

    John
    Reply
  • Tros - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    That model is quite different, and far more impressive. To be fair though, Sony UK either has to loan this machine to AT, or AT pays some 2,400 British Pounds (~3,500 USD) out of their own pockets.

    And yeah, both this article and Sony's UK site doesn't pronounce a lot of the neat things that make either laptop more usable. I think those kinds of reviews come with something completely different though (IE, aluminum unibody, or OS-upgrade), or absurdly better specs compared to everything on the market. They don't fit for a casual review. I mean, Ars Technica covered the changes from OS X 10.5 to 10.6, and that took some 23 pages. And I think that was the "primer" version.

    Anyway, that laptop is a beast of a 13-inch machine, but I think it's in a direction Apple's not interested in. IE: A 1080p screen might be too much DPI for some, and the OS would have to implement resolution independence to appease all users (No OS and set of popular applications does so yet). The reduced battery (58 WHR) is also a direction they can't go (the lunatics throw tantrums when a spec goes down in number). I'd also bet the reason for avoiding the strongest processors, is because x86 is not the right architecture to do heavily threaded tasks on. At least, not the kind you'd want a laptop to do (non-server).

    I will still hold though that machine is doing something wrong though, because of the diminishing returns after one good SSD. Having four tells me that you have four mediocre ones, and need to compensate with brute force. It kind of defeats the gained battery life by having 1 SSD over a mechanical HDD if you instead use 4x the power. That machine deserves a dissection over a review to see what's so awesome about it.
    Reply
  • JPForums - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Another rather irrelevant review of an outdated, expensive, fruit-themed, fanboi toy that still cannot convince me to try it over an ASUS or CLEVO notebook.


    I'm no fan of MACs, but I would say this crosses the line from negative comment to not useful.
    1) If this review is irrelevant, then how can you use it to come to the conclusion that ASUS or CLEVO is a better option.
    2) I'll agree that the notebook in question is underpowered in some respects, but the model is new and similar models are still being sold be ASUS. I wouldn't call that outdated, but rather aging.
    3) Expensive, ..., I've got to agree with you there, but it is apparently worth it to many people.
    4) "Fruit-themed", "fanboi toy" I don't know about everyone else, but when I hear labels like "Fruit-themed", I get the feeling I'm listening to a PC "fanboi".

    This review is relevant for the very reason you think its irrelevant. Comparing reviews of Apples offerings to similar offerings from ASUS and CLEVO tells you exactly why you should get one versus the other. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to get a MAC. However, they don't apply to me. You have to concede that some people value form over function. For these people, MACs are hard to beat. Another example is the professional video industry. For instance, despite the latest and greatest features of Adobe's Master Collection coming to PC first, MAC has the established ecosystem and they have the features that matter. It's the same kind of legacy following that x86 in general has.

    What I do get frustrated about is when people buy into the MACs just work mantra. I've seen quite a few problems with MACs (screens with gradients, low quality motherboard builds, etc.) and in some cases the customer service won't even admit there is a problem to fix. However, exempting critical hardware issues, I can say fairly confidently that the biggest difference between a system "that works" and one that doesn't is the end user, not the OS. The end user has to make the decision on the quality and performance of the hardware hardware purchased, what type of software to use, browsing habits, ect. Apple just seems to want to make more and more of those decisions for you. Note what happens when they make the wrong decision.

    To be fair, many of Apple's problems exist for some of the largest PC manufacturers as well, however, they don't have massive ad campaigns trying to tell people otherwise.
    Reply
  • JesperL - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I've been a reader af Anandtech for many years now. Ive been coming here since shortly after it started, from what i can quickly figure out it must be more than 10 years. Probably closer to 11.

    I have never signed up to say anything here, but just now i did.

    But im about to leave. If Anand wants to just spend his time on Macs, there is not much reason for me to be here. The guy writes some of the best tech articles around, but the subject does matter. Fact is, this used to be PC, its now turning into Mac. No hard feelings, but i feel obliged to post a note saying this.

    Some people dont mind this turn, im sure, but i do.
    Reply
  • Ratman6161 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    For example if you go to the mobile area ( http://www.anandtech.com/tag/mobile ) you have to go a long way down the page to find an article on an Apple product. Lots of stuff on Acer, Asus, HP, gateway, nVidia, Intel etc. before you get to the first Apple article.

    Personally I can't stand Apple or Mr. Jobs for a variety of reasons I won't go into here. But I don't think it's fair to accuse AnandTech of some kind of pro Apple bias.

    Note that even in the Macbook pro article he points out that the machine gets 50% better framerates in games in Windows than it does in OSX.
    Reply
  • Ratman6161 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Here is another example: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3759/mac-os-x-steam-...

    It's a whole article on how gaming is slower under OSX than under Windows. Does that seem like a pro-Apple bias to you? The Apple fanboys are probably screaming that it's an anti-apple bias. There is just no way to win with the angry finger pointers on either side of the issue.
    Reply
  • bji - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I've been reading Anandtech for a long time too.

    I don't own and never have owned a Macintosh computer but I enjoy reading about a variety of technologies so I would have the opposite opinion as JesperL.

    Please keep reviewing different technologies regardless of their company of origin.
    Reply
  • Tros - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I for one am grateful for Anand's review, for taking a PC-like scrutiny to something that wasn't quite a PC six years ago. And for Anandtech, for taking that extra step, beyond comparing numbers from synthetic benchmarks, to pay attention to how the machines interface with people. That last step is really why I can't visit TH, with all their ad-crap and mal-scripts, and only visit AT now. Reply
  • Ninjahedge - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Agreed.

    PC World is just Fanboi Flamebait Central (on both sides) and rarely has an article that is more than press release or opinion on what is happening in the world of fruits and transistors.

    TH lost my vote when they trimmed/amputated the "other" section where tech diehards like myself used to wander freely into the depths of depraved 1st and 2nd generation tech hounds that were tired of reading the same RTFM questions and ill-informed rantings.

    As JPF listed, I think the main problem with Apple is not necessarily the product, or even the price they sell it at, but their denial of any problems in their ads (sometimes quite insulting, "I'm an Apple"......)

    I think it is good that Apple is starting to use some higher end graphics on its machines as most of us will not be transcripting video, doing large scale PS'ing or complex Finite Element Analysis on a smaller laptop anyway. Laptops this size are meant for general workload, multitasking, and entertainment. The needed attriobutes for that are memory, resolution, battery life and GPU.

    Do I think that this makes these Apples into Pie? Nope, but it looks like they are starting to try to merge a bit more into the fold as their sales in this sector move(d) ahead of its compeditors.

    Aside: You think that, just maybe, Dell could come out with a line of machines called "Orange"?

    I think it would be funny as hell if we could compare Apples to Oranges.
    Reply
  • hybrid2d4x4 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    RE: "for taking a PC-like scrutiny"
    For the most part, I'd agree with you, but I got the impression that he treated the mac with kid gloves in the gaming section. If you look at a typical laptop review by Jarred, Vivek, et al, they usually include the results for the panel's native res (unless the lower 8x6 result is abysmal). I thought this was seriously lacking in the WoW benchmark. If I got a good framerate at 800x600, I`d step the res up to native and if it wasn`t playable, I'd turn down the shader quality,etc. This is especially true when you're talking about running a res with a different aspect ratio than the display, causing nasty stretch-induced loss of image quality.

    Unless the system was too weak to handle it, I'd always run the native res, so I was baffled as to why not a single one of the gaming charts uses 1280x800. Sure, they are still useful to illustrate how it compares to the previous gen and the GT330 in the 15", but I don`t see why the tests weren't ran at the native res. That would seem to be the most practical/relevant demonstration of gaming ability on this laptop.
    Reply
  • Setsunayaki - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    While I am not a fan of Apple by any means in any sector, I like their consistency within battery life. They offer laptops that at least wont discharge rapidly. I don't like the 1280x800 resolution simply because I do more things, and if the resolution was so low...

    then I rather opt for something much cooler...

    Rather than spend money on this and everything needed to get started, I prefer spending that money to build my own desktop PC to have at home and buy a netbook as well. The combination of the two would be far more valuable for the money, considering in my own usage..

    I don't play many 3D games on the road, or do many heavy things on a laptop...unless I am working off-site with a team of course.
    Reply
  • intelpatriot - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Is there that meaningful a difference between a core 2 and an i5 (even an i7), anyway?

    I'm guessing it's going to be nothing like the performance gain stepping up a GPU price bracket/generation.
    Reply
  • Calin - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    The performance gain for stepping up a GPU price bracket and/or generation might be zero if you don't even use Aero and the most difficult graphic activity on your laptop are sliding menus.
    Games are a totally different thing, and some people don't use games (or other applications) that benefit from high performance graphics.
    As for Core2Duo (E6550) versus Core i7 920:
    http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/47?vs=61
    Over 10% faster in worst case (Fallout 3 1680x1050 medium quality), and triple the speed in a couple of benchmarks (Sorenson Squeeze pro5, Cinebench R10 multithreaded). The E6550 is similar (slightly better) to one of the first "high performance" Core2Duo that appeared, and I think the price at launch was somewhat similar.
    Reply
  • Howierr - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Has anyone tried using a X-25M G2 (80gb or 160gb) in the early 2010 MacBook Pro 13", and installing Windows 7 through Bootcamp? I tried this with 2 different brand new X-25M SSDs, and the MacBook has a hard time detecting the SSD consistently on boot up. When installing Windows 7, sometimes no disks are detected, and it takes many reboots to get the SSD to be detected. But after a successful installation, whenever I reboot the MacBook Pro, there is a very good chance that the question mark icon shows up, meaning that it cannot detect any bootable devices.

    I installed one of the X-25M into a mid-2009 MacBook Pro 13", bootcamp Winodws 7 and it works flawlessly reboot after reboot.

    Could this be an isolated incident, or do all early-2010 MacBook Pro 13s dislike the Intel X-25M G2?
    Reply
  • Zok - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Not quite to your question, but I installed a 160 GB G2 into my 2010 i5 15" MBP and have had no issues whatsoever. There have been reports that the NVIDIA chipset's SATA implementation is somewhat subpar compared to Intel's, as is in the new 2010 15" MBPs. Reply
  • Jamor - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Would it be possible to get WoW results in OSX at similar settings?
    That'd give something to compare Portal/Half Life results to.

    My gut feeling is, the OSX/Win performance difference is more in the drivers and the way OS handles 3D, less in the porting.
    Reply
  • Meaker10 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    How can a 2 chip platform (core i series) not fit when a 3 chip platform (core 2) already does? Reply
  • BlendMe - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Well the Core i platform in itself is a 2 chip solution, but only if you stick with Intel's graphics. If you want something more powerfull you have to go with a discrete GPU which makes it a 3 chip solution (like on the 2010 15" & 17").

    The C2D platform in the 13" is a 2 chip solution, because you have the CPU and a Nvidia chipset with integrated GPU, which is much more powerfull than Intel's on-chip graphics.

    I am disappointed about the missing Core i in the 13", but then I kinda understand Apple's decision.
    Reply
  • gcor - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Last June I reluctantly bought a 13" MacBook Pro for university as it seemed the only 8+ hr machine with big enough screen and performance to get me through the day.

    Having been a Windows person since 3.11 (I used to be a sys admin & software engineer), I was not looking forward to the learning curve of OS-X and becoming savvy enough to fix problems.

    I got to say though, the laptop has meet all my needs admirably, with a tiny learning curve. Also, maybe I was just unlucky with the ~15 PC's I had beforehand, but the machine seems rock solid stable in comparison. It's definitely saved me a ton of time in terms of; no BSOD's, no driver compatibility issues, no anti-virus machine hogging, no bloatware, no OS patches killing the machine, etc.

    Basically, when I want to use it, I just lift the lid and I'm away. I never turn it off & have re-booted no more than a handful of times in a year.

    About the only trouble I've had is the occasional Office crashes (I wonder if the manufacturer has done this intentionally?)

    Anyway, after a one year experiment, I feel the additional price has been well worth it. It's an absolute work horse that is always ready to let me get the job done. Other than games, there is nothing I miss from Windows that would convince me to swap back.

    To all the die hard Windows folks out there (like I was), if you want a machine to get your job done without needing to mess about with the machine itself, I strongly recommend giving one a go. Keep a PC around for gaming and you'll be fine.
    Reply
  • killerclick - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I've been trying to convince all my moron friends who can't handle Windows to give Mac a try. "It's so simple, an idiot could use it!" I keep saying but to no avail, most of them insist on struggling with an operating system which is clearly too taxing on their mental abilities. I wish we could simply force all Windows users to use a Mac for a day, that would do the trick! Reply
  • piroroadkill - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I have a brand new Macbook on my desk here at work, as well as newish (Phenom X3) desktop with Windows 7.

    For a while it's been the case that I don't really care which OS I use for random tasks.

    On balance, I prefer windows simply because I can game when I want to.

    I never have the huge number of problems people seem to run into. Infact, I've had to force the Macbook off by holding down the power button more than once, so neither is perfect.
    Reply
  • Ninjahedge - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Been there, done that.

    After my mother had her laptop crash consistantly when using school scheduling and grading software that the schools tech staff could not fix (many lost days in productivity) I have to say Apple is not necessarily always golden.

    Does that mean that PC is better for this? Not necessarily (as I do not have any direct experience with that. Apple has done a good job flooding the Education segment with their products from almost day one. Hell, I still remember "computer" class on an Apple IIe!!!!!)

    The only frustrating thing I find about the Mac is simply, well, simplicity. One person put it on another post it is the difference between "tone" and a 40 band graphic equalizer. Apple has a good amp, and a simple "tone" knob". PC's have that equalizer. Problem with PC's is that 4 BILLION different companies make those equalizers and YMMV (The Yiddish Equalizer puts Bass on the RHS!!! ;) )

    Anyway, that 1 day thing is a crock. I DO AGREE however, that you need to use BOTH for more than a few minutes to get a feel for them, their OS, their available programs and hardware and how they fit your lifestyle.

    If either stank, they would not be around this long.

    Period.
    Reply
  • The0ne - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Don't blame you guys for wanting some simple and stable to run on. You have what is essentially given as-is to you. You work within its limitation as well, as with all Apple products. So while this type of "closed" product is good for some it's not so great with others.

    Then you have the Windows OS PC side where you should expect issues. That's because just about everyone has a thing for it. If they screw up the PC screws up. But there's great flexibility there and you do have spend time to find the right products; which in itself is a fun thing for some :)

    So other than bashing one of the other, just enjoy how the PC suits your needs currently. And if you need should change, as it usually does, just pray that whatever product you have will allow it :) This to me the the most crucial.
    Reply
  • gcor - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    That's a rather insulting reply.

    In the past I've been professionally employed as a systems engineer, integrating Windows, unix and mainframe (IBM, Fujitsu, etc) systems. I've architected, designed and developed large scale multi-tier transaction processing systems across all these platforms, including middle ware products.

    From there I moved into the R&D of a 3G mobile network, actively architecting, designing and implementing parts of one of the most successful 3G networks currently being operated.

    If this makes me one of the people you consider a "moron" and that Windows is "clearly too taxing on their mental abilities", then so be it.

    Thank you for your considered and polite input to the debate.
    Reply
  • BlendMe - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Do any of you remember Anand's first Mac article?

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/1500

    Good stuff!
    Reply
  • effortless - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I do not see how people can even allow themselves to complain. The MacBook Pro 13 features great construction quality (UniBody), has got premium speakers and a premium display, along with the best battery in the business. After all, nearly 10 hours web browsing with that performance behind is an incredible unmatched ratio.

    That it is thin and does not all excessive bulk anywhere (pretty much a flat surface), is to me more important than some ultra-portables weighing a few 100g less. Volume is what matters when you put it into a bag or similar.

    Otherwise everything about it just reeks of quality. I've tried the trackpad and the keyboard, and they both instantly became my favorites among the few notebooks I've tried with chicklet keys.

    Additionally, if you go to college, you can get an iPod Touch, eligible for upgrade to the new iOS4, for free. Considering how the trends state that you get more money in return when selling your Mac, than a PC, I personally consider the price tag a steal.

    I am really not weary to understand the hate against Apple. Sure, they do not support all standards, as they place bets only on the horses they in the future predict will be predominant. An adapter can solve pretty much any video output issue, whereas you have BootCamp in case you need Windows for something. Since let us face it, few among you have heard about people returning from OSX to Windows, as the former is simply superior in terms of user interface. Then what is there left to complain about? That they use dirty tricks in their marketing? I think most businesses do, and Apple has made a clear effort to actually improve their products to become eco-friendly and efficient. So even if their thoughts are somewhere else entirely (money & profit), these changes to apply to changes in reality.
    Reply
  • The0ne - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    No complaints from me this time. The review was nicely done with little to no "ohh, woww, OMG" type of personal inputs. That I can live with as I'm actually reading a review rather than having to sort through all the irrelevant, persuasive comments.

    This time, I don't see how some could bash the review hahaha Nice work Anand.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    The PC fanboys seem absolutely threatened by any Mac reviews on this site, its lunacy.

    I myself use and like both Windows PCs and Macs, so whatever
    Reply
  • Exodite - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    It seems clear to me that the new 13" MBP is really the best the new lineup can offer.

    While many of my pet peeves remain, such as the glossy display, poor resolution, lack of good connectivity choices etc. the improved graphics performance, battery and bumped minimum specs actually puts it back in the running as an option for a truly portable computer.

    While the lack of a 'modern' CPU is an issue on paper I have to say nothing about the actual performance seems that bad to me.
    Reply
  • sil0nt - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Anand,

    I'd like to see an SSD comparison on one of the Mac platforms to understand which drives hold up the best in the non-TRIM aware OX S. There are some benchmarks out there, but none with your rigorous testing methodology.
    Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I noticed a real world article with regards to battery life and for the life of me cannot recall the link.

    Anyhow, the guy grabbed six laptops of various battery life etc and simply played a dvd.

    The macbook (Not sure which he used) lasted around 5.5 hours continuous play... the same as the other laptops.

    Baffled??
    Reply
  • damianrobertjones - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    P.s. I also think that this article gives me nothing that hasn't been said before and wonder why it's been written? Reply
  • BlendMe - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    AT readers have been asking for a review of the new 13" and the 320M, so he delivered. Reply
  • tim851 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Seriously, am I getting so old that I am the only one who thinks 1280x800 is sufficient for a 13.3" screen? Reply
  • Ninjahedge - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Yes.

    /me hands tim a pair of bifocals.
    Reply
  • Dennis Travis - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Do you have a pair for me also? :D Reply
  • Ninjahedge - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    /me snaps bifocals at bridge.

    Bifocal Monocles for both!!!!!!!
    Reply
  • FATCamaro - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    hahahaha. nice Reply
  • rfadream - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Hey Anand are you sure those temps you measured are in Fahrenheit and not Celsius? Reply
  • jabber - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Its amazing the type of quality product you can get from using just slave labour to make it.

    Well done.
    Reply
  • cheinonen - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Why do people treat Apple like they're the only person that uses Foxconn? HP, Dell, and others use them as well. I'm not excusing anything at Foxconn, but to single out Apple as only being able to do this because of who they use for manufacturing, when most other top companies use the same vendor, is ridiculous. Reply
  • james.jwb - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    @jabber

    Your comment pretty much applies to 80% of everything you buy, period. You are living in a bubble and possibly even a hypocrite to get on your high horse about this product, or Foxconn so singularly.

    But hey, it is being heavily talked about at the moment and it is in your face, so good for you for having this fleeting feeling of misplaced superiority that will no doubt disappear just as quickly as the misplaced headlines.
    Reply
  • jabber - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    Fully aware that any electronic device has blood sweat and tears on it so I am fortunate enough to purchase it.

    I have been very aware of this for years.

    However, it's been pretty apparent that many havent been aware of this and seem to wish to keep their heads in the sand so they dont have to feel guilty about it.

    "I dont care what goes on as long as I get my new iPhone upgrade gimme gimme!"

    The suicides at Foxconn are not necessarily Foxconn's fault.

    It's OUR fault!

    Our fault for wanting to only pay the minimum for more and more good such as these Macbooks, motherboards, GPUs etc. etc.

    I just hope from events this past few weeks might make a few people think a little bit more before they purchase their next unnecessary electronic gadget.

    Same goes for cheap, shoes, clothes, jewellry etc.
    Reply
  • zorxd - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    95% of mac users don't use their GPU. The Intel GMA HD GPU would have been more than enough for this kind of laptop. The Geforce 320M is too slow for gaming anyways so I don't see the point. Reply
  • jabber - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Noooo, dont be silly. The Geforce 105M in my Dell is more than enough to play a lot of the games I mess around with such as BF2 and Eve online. Eve plays at high settings and gives around 60fps.

    We dont all play Crysis and Call Of Donkey Modern Warfare 4 whatever.
    Reply
  • Ninjahedge - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Maybe more would if it HAD a GPU to begin with.

    If the current Mac users do not buy their machine to game on (or any other GPU intensive task) because there is no good GPU present, what is to say they will not buy and utilize it if it is included?
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    Not true, the OS X desktop has always leaned heavily on the GPU. The other thing is OpenCL which shipped with OS 10.6. Apple has to be prepping some major GPU computing in the next version of OS X, especially since it is a part of 10.6.

    I believe this is the "thing" Anand is waiting for, we'll see. It makes sense why Apple would put such a relatively high baseline on their GPUs, otherwise they'd just go with the Arrandale's anemic graphics and call it a day.
    Reply
  • bang222 - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    They took away support for jumbo frames in the Broadcom ethernet chip.

    :-(

    Big minus if you tune your NAS.
    Reply
  • CharonPDX - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    There's not enough motherboard real estate to include an Arrandale Core i3/i5 CPU plus an NVIDIA discrete GPU like Apple does in the new 15 and 17-inch models.


    Uh, I call bull.

    Apple fit a three-chip solution in the first MacBook Air. Yes, the CPU was on a smaller mount, but it was still a three-chip solution on a microscopic board. If they really wanted to, they could slap a three-chip solution in the 13" MBP.
    Reply
  • solipsism - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    1) The MBA had the CULV C2D and GMA950 or 9400M. That's two!

    2) The MBA is 13" but it also using a SFF chip, has low power and low heat, thereby needs less venting and can use a smaller fan and heatsink.

    3) The MBA has a 1.8" drive, not a 2.5" drive.

    4) The MBA has no optical drive whilst the MB and 13" MBP do.

    — MBA internals: http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/WPhHIikf5jBW...
    — MBA MoBo: http://www.ifixit.com/igi/KJJyYGCKwbfhmAJI

    — 13" MBP internals: http://s2.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/FkpKKrqQlYsg...
    — 13" MBP MoBo: http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/XaPYhlwqukef...

    If you're going to call "bull" then i assume that you have detailed info as to where all this extra room is that a Core-i chip + dGPU + additional fan would go in this system.

    it seems to me that the only way they could add the items you think are so easily included which altering the dimensions of the internal space is to reduce the size of the battery (which is still too lower than most people would like it to be at) or remove the optical drive (which oft goes unused, is slow, mote prone to break due to moving parts, and takes up 25% of the internal space). I'm going with the latter.
    Reply
  • jasperjones - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I find it highly inconsistent that AT doesn't test MBPs like any other laptops. Why do the charts compare the MBP to other MBPs instead of comparing it to laptops from Acer, ASUS, Lenovo, etc. that have been tested on this site? Reply
  • synaesthetic - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I assume because those laptops cannot (legally or for drivers/compatibility reasons) run OSX. Reply
  • DaveninCali - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Back on May 20th, I commented that the reason why we don't have discrete graphics for the 13" MB and MBP was because of space constraints. In response, I got this from Jarred Walton,

    "The "motherboard space" argument is absolute garbage."

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3733/apple-macbook-u...

    How can an Anandtech staff member tell me my argument is complete garbage just 2 weeks before the editor-in-chief reviews the MBP saying that the reason we don't have discrete graphics is motherboard space? That doesn't make sense to me. Don't you guys talk to each other.

    Of course, you can say that Apple can completely redesign everything but that doesn't make the reason why there is no discrete graphics because of space constraints any less valid. That's the reason given the current design.

    So what will you give up if you redesign the motherboard for more space to accommodate discrete graphics? Smaller battery and therefore less battery life? 1.8" vs. 2.5" HDD therefore less disk space? Etc.

    What say you Mr. Walton?
    Reply
  • synaesthetic - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I enjoyed reading this review, Anand. Too often Apple product reviews are fanboy drool-fests that do little to point out the product's shortcomings. I, too, am very disappointed in Apple for making this new 13" MBP such an incremental upgrade.

    Yeah, the new IGP is "nice," but I've heard from people who have it that the 320M (also used in some HP laptops) is bunk and the Windows drivers are even *more* bunk. Lots of crashes, games refusing to run properly, etc. It's nice to see that in OSX, it runs quite well.

    I'm a longtime PC user, and while I've been meaning to pick up an older 13" MacBook so I can learn OSX for professional reasons, I am hardly a fanboy of either. I do not like Steve Jobs, his attitude or his company, and I *do* think that Apple products are generally *a bad deal.*

    I was pleasantly surprised with the massive upgrade they gave the iPhone 4 over the 3GS; I figured, due to the iPad's existence, that they would make the iPhone 4 a weak incremental upgrade. But instead they virtually invalidated the iPad's existence by tossing an A4 SoC and forward-facing camera into the new iPhone! (Here's hoping we get an iPod Touch 4, too, but I'm not holding my breath.)

    What irritates me about Apple is that they are not cost-effective. You pay so much for so little computer. It makes me sad.
    Reply
  • KoolAidMan1 - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    It depends on the machine. The majority of the 27" iMac's price is in the display. The same 27" display is $1100 from Dell, it'll be around $1500 from NEC. The 27" iMac starts at $1700. Given the performance, display quality, and all-in-one design, I'd hardly call it a bad deal.

    Similar thing with the notebooks given their extremely light weight without compromising battery life and performance. Then you have the best trackpad on the market with multitouch gestures (some of which even work in Windows via Boot Camp), the best keyboard outside of a Lenovo, the best international power adapter and airline seat adapters out there, and you can see why some people would want to drop a few extra dollars on them (or not even spend much more if we're comparing with a Sony or a business class Dell or HP).
    Reply
  • osideplayer - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    I am actually an avid PC user who was considering getting a MAC because of the new GPU's recently installed. I loaded a SSD with Ubuntu instead, but it's good to know I would have made a good decision. Considering I am graphics oriented and nobodies probably reading this anymore, so I guess im gonna go fart. Reply
  • vicbdn - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    If Sony and Alienware can fit an i5/i7 and discrete graphics in the vaio Z and m11x, what is stopping Apple from doing that in the 13 in macbook? Sounds like B.S. to me. Reply
  • vicbdn - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    Forgot m11x doesn't have a dvdrom drive...so nvm about that. Reply
  • overzealot - Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - link

    You say that memory is entirely responsible for the faster load times/app performance.
    I think the increase in disk density (and, therefore sequential transfer rate) probably makes a decent impact as well.
    Reply
  • evilpaul666 - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    Apple's strangely, poorly threaded iTunes is going to use OpenCL to transcode video in a future update.

    Wild speculation on my part, yes, but that's what its OpenCL everywhere push is all about.
    Reply
  • adamjohari - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    this is slightly off topic, but i wish some of you guys know the answer to this. right now i'm using a mac mini with a logitech mouse, and the movement of the mouse is just terrible. i did some research online and it says it's because of the mouse acceleration is different in macs. my question is, if i were to buy the magic mouse... would the acceleration be any different than me using my logitech mouse right now?

    thanks in advance. again, sorry for diverting.

    adam
    Reply
  • Jamor - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    I've never noticed a difference between mac or other mouses and I've used mainly logitech mouses on my macs. There are logitech mouse drivers which I've never bothered to install, might help you though. Also try fiddling with system preferences/mouse settings. Reply
  • tipoo - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    The acceleraiton would be no different, that is an OS related thing. However you may find the Logitech has faster tracking than the Magic Mouse.

    You can get little programs that "fix" OSX's different acceleration curve, one is called MouseFix or something like that.

    Good luck
    Reply
  • stormmonkey - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    I'm very happy with my 2010 13" MBP and just Tuesday upgraded to Seagate's new Momentus XT. Aside from a 20mb/sec average read speed increase over the stock drive, it's caching to flash storage gives a great overall boost to everyday use. Reply
  • Oxford Guy - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    "For the past 1.5 years every single Mac has shipped with some form of NVIDIA graphics, standard, regardless of price."

    I was just on Apple's website and found iMacs that have Radeon GPUs in them.
    Reply
  • hallubalooza - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    I know this wont mean anything to anyone who already has their mind made up. But I have a ridiculous desktop for running games and any intense windows apps. However I also have a 13" macbook pro that is awesome. It stays charged for a very long time even running a virtual machine (vmware fusion is great) for when i need to do something in windows xp or 7. I have it partitioned with windows 7 which I can either boot into if I really need the extra performance for something or I can load it in vmware to get any files I may need. It has some useful terminal commands built in and the trackpad is hands down the best I have ever used. Using any other laptop feels gimmicky compared to the multitouch and all the stupid hand swipe gestures that surprisingly increase productivity! It does cost more, but it isnt plastic and I really feel that people complain about the glossy screen just to find something to complain about. I would never buy an apple desktop but I feel that the 13" mbp is a great computer. Reply
  • howmoney - Friday, June 11, 2010 - link

    best buy com hardware

    http://www.com-hardware.com
    Reply
  • Hrel - Saturday, June 12, 2010 - link

    If someone could do a review on the laptop that I
    currently suspect is the best "bang for your buck" out
    there. It's made by compal, and available on Cyberpower.com who's
    machines you've reviewed before.
    If you'd like it configured like I did, which I think is the best bang
    for buck, do this:
    Go to the website.
    mouse over 15.6" Laptops and click on the $999 Xplorer X6-8500. It has a 1080p screen.

    (I'm not sure why the people who run this site do this, but even though the other
    configurations use the same chassis when personalized they
    come out to cost more than this one; annoying since it makes me configure all 3
    or 4 machines built on the same base chassis to figure out which one is
    cheapest/best for me.)

    Then I configured
    it with the Core i7-620M CPU. (to get it over 1K so I can take advantage of the 5%
    off.) 4GB 0DDR3-1333, hopefully 7-7-7-21, probably not, but
    hopefully.
    ATI MR HD5650 1GB GDDR3
    320GB 7200rpm HDD (I did this cause I'm gonna take that HDD out
    and use the Seagate Momentus XT 500GB, thanks for that
    review!!)
    Everything else on that page I left untouched.
    The only thing I did on page 2 was switch to Intel wifi with bluetooth;
    Though I'm curious if the MSI option is
    equal/better; 17 bucks isn't nothing.

    It has HDMI out and a fingerprint reader. This page says 3 USB ports,
    the specs sheet says 4USB ports; not sure which is true. (I do wish
    they were USB 3.0 ports, but I was hoping you guys would test some stuff and
    tell me if that even matters for use with an external hard drive, mechanical
    disk 7200rpm. Transferring large files like movies and games mostly.)

    On page 3 I select "none, format only" for
    the OS. And select "LCD perfect assurance" cause even 1 dead pixel is
    unacceptable to me.
    This brings the total to $1008.90 after 5% off, or $992.75 if
    you get the MSI network card.

    So yeah, I really hope you guys can get a hold of one of these
    for review; as a loner or given as a review unit or maybe
    someone will just buy one and review it cause it's really tempting me right now...
    like a lot!
    If you're review is good I'm gonna start
    saving up and hopefully be able to buy it around Christmas. Thanks
    guys! A loyal reader. - Brian
    Reply
  • CompSciSTL - Saturday, June 12, 2010 - link

    Have you installed Windows 7 on the new 13" MBP? I'd be curious to know what kind of battery life you get using Win 7. Reply
  • paihuaizhe - Sunday, June 20, 2010 - link

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    organization)
    Reply
  • runebinder - Saturday, June 26, 2010 - link

    Hi there, just waded through a few pages of comments to see if anyone had already posted it, gave up in the end as more of it was PC Vs Mac then anything else, so apologies if this has already been reported.

    Got an i7 15" MacBook Pro and installed a 120GB Vertex 2E today, checked System Profiler to see if Apple were limiting SATA speeds as they have previously have and noticed mine has TRIM Support: No listed as well. Just thought I'd mention it as the article states that this is limited to the 13" only. If it's old news then just ignore.
    Reply
  • tno - Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - link

    This was reported on, and all signs do point to an eventual adoption of TRIM in OS X; as well as a more aggressive use of the GPGPU. Maybe Lion? Maybe Liono? Reply
  • tno - Wednesday, December 29, 2010 - link

    A user commented:
    "I know this wont mean anything to anyone who already has their mind made up. But I have a ridiculous desktop for running games and any intense windows apps. However I also have a 13" macbook pro that is awesome. It stays charged for a very long time even running a virtual machine (vmware fusion is great) for when i need to do something in windows xp or 7. I have it partitioned with windows 7 which I can either boot into if I really need the extra performance for something or I can load it in vmware to get any files I may need. It has some useful terminal commands built in and the trackpad is hands down the best I have ever used. Using any other laptop feels gimmicky compared to the multitouch and all the stupid hand swipe gestures that surprisingly increase productivity! It does cost more, but it isnt plastic and I really feel that people complain about the glossy screen just to find something to complain about. I would never buy an apple desktop but I feel that the 13" mbp is a great computer. "

    This is exactly what the usage scenario of which Apple is taking advantage. What's the best way to play video games? On a console or on a Windows PC. Would Apple like a piece of that pie? Sure and they're working on it but that's never going to be a driving influence behind a Mac purchase. But let's move "play" then into the category of "consumption," that is the user of a consumption device is consuming a media, in this case a game. Apple designs their laptops and desktops for "production," they want their machines to be devices you work on. And this has always been so.

    So, will the gamer find their Starcraft 2 or Call of Duty performance inadequate? You bet. But that's why they make gaming laptops. Apple doesn't sell those.

    To everyone else, and that includes casual gamers that make up the vast majority of computer users, getting work done on a Macintosh is great. Is it better than on a Windows machine? Windows 7 has come along way but I still find the windows management aspects of OS X vastly superior and that makes it worth it for me. Consumption is not the primary aim of Apple computers. That's the purview of . . . their consumption products. Want to listen to music? iPod/iPhone. Want to watch a movie? Apple TV. Want to read a book? iPad. Want to play a game? iOS. Two divisions of Apple, two different missions.

    I belabor this point because I think it's important to keep in mind when discussing these products. Losing perspective is, to paraphrase an idiom, like discussing the citrus characteristics of an apple.
    Reply

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