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  • fyleow - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Anand,

    Thanks for using overall performance rather than random read/write to base your conclusions. Your earlier SSD articles slammed the Samsung controller chips pretty hard for the random read/write performance even though their real world performance wasn't too bad.
    Reply
  • coolhardware - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Just wanted to say "thank you" for each and every one of the SSD articles posted to AnandTech. Your thorough articles make purchasing a SSDs a much safer proposition :-). Reply
  • sparkuss - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Anand,

    I have been following the TRIM driver issue with my C300-256 SSD on the Crucial forums. Based on the Test Bed chart can I assume you used only the ICH10R port(s). And which OS driver was used? The MSAHCI or the INTEL IMSM?

    Thank You
    Reply
  • RU482 - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I understand the significance of the TRIM test that was performed....BUT...how realistic is this test. I'd be interested in seeing how well the TRIM and Garbage Collection functionality of the firmware work if, say, half of the drive endured a similar loading. OR, run the same units idle for 100hrs (yeah, ridiculous, just like the test) and see how much things have recovered.

    In the grand scheme of things, benchmarks are great for marketing. They do offer some credence in the fact that they offer a side by side comparison of various components under certain lab conditions. But the problem is, they do not often reflect real world usage performance. Or, more importantly, real world tangible differences in performance.
    Reply
  • Chloiber - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I can assure you, that these benchmarks to simulate TRIM aren't that far away from reality. On a small drive, you will see such crappy performance after several weeks, depending on your usage. I experienced this on the Indilinxdrives when they didn't have TRIM and better GC. 3 Weeks and my write was down to 35MB/s.

    Of course it depends, as I said, highly on your usage pattern. If you don't use it (idle, what a test?!?!), it won't affect the performance. Why should it...
    Reply
  • TheGame240 - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I'm not proposing anything that extreme, but I would like to see Garbage Collection tested on a TRIM-less OS. Something similar to the TRIM test used now, but ran under Vista/XP or Windows 7 with TRIM commands disabled and the drives left idle over night. OCZ has touted their aggressive Garbage Collection, while Intel just says it's there. It would be nice to have an actual measurement of their effectiveness. Especially in a budget review where these drives would likely be used as upgrades for older Vista desktops or netbooks running XP. Reply
  • rocky12345 - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    It was a good review/article but non of those drives are worth what you pay for them. They simply are way to small to be of any good to anyone. Also as a gaming drive 30GB or 40GB really!! Maybe back in 1999 that would float every ones boat but in this day & age 40GB just does not cut it & for the price a 1 or 2TB HDD is well worth the 7 or 8 seconds it takes longer to load a game. I do see SSD being a good thing someday but at this point if you have to give up your left nut to get one that is a good size then it is not worth it at all. Thanks Reply
  • therealnickdanger - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    If you haven't used one on your primary computer, then you really don't know what you're talking about. Buy and use one for a week or two (it won't take that long) and then go back to your slow-as-molasses hard drive. You'll feel like you're back in 1989 while you wait and wait and wait for your hard drive to access data. Reply
  • rocky12345 - Friday, June 04, 2010 - link

    slow hard drive yea ok. I happen to have 2 sets of raid arrays in my system 4 in each set. first set is Seagate 1TB 7200.12 4 in total second set is Seagate Barracuda® XT 2TB 4 in total. So trust me I am not missing anything as you stated I have more than enough speed & most importantly I have the space my work requires me to have a SSD at this point can not give me the needed space at the same price point. ys the SSD drives are fast they just need to make them bigger & cheaper until then they are a niche product.. Reply
  • Nataku - Friday, June 04, 2010 - link

    I hate to say this... but you really should try before going off like that... X25 felt way faster than the RAID0 I've encountered over the years Reply
  • R-Smith - Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - link

    +1

    Then again, the best idea might be to avoid an SSD because then PC's without SSD's won't seem so slow.
    Reply
  • MobiusStrip - Monday, June 07, 2010 - link

    "They simply are way to small" TOO. TOO small. T, O, O Reply
  • racerx_is_alive - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Seems like the 30GB OCZ Vertex is another good option in this price range. If its performance is anywhere close to the 120GB version in your SSD Bench, I wonder if it isn't a better option than the Onyx and the Kingston? Reply
  • Taft12 - Friday, June 04, 2010 - link

    Performance of the 30GB Vertex is not close to the 120GB version. Reply
  • Mugur - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Does the non-Intel drives have a tool equivalent with the Intel SSD Toolbox? I mean, if I'm not sure if TRIM works, I just run that utility (it takes about 3 seconds :-) )... Reply
  • Chloiber - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    The drives with Indilinxcontrollers (the normale one and ECO, I don't know about "Amigos" though!) have a "TRIM"-tool. You can manually trim under windows. It is beta though and should be used with care. For me, it always worked.

    Under Linux, you can issue a manual TRIM command anytime you want (google for hdparm and/or wiper.sh linux ). Also here, there are still problems, but again it worked for my Ultradrive perfectly well.
    Reply
  • teohhanhui - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    And yes, I'll wait until the new Intel drives come out at the end of this year (presumably). Reply
  • Phate- - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    What about ssd's with the JMicron JMF612/JMF618 controllers? These are the real budget-ssd's, the Kingston SNV425-S2 64GB is by far the cheapest ssd (with only the 128GB version offering more GB/euro). And what about the Corsair Reactor Series R60, Corsair Performance series P64 and Corsair Extreme series E64. These drives have cost about the same as the Intel Postville 80GB when you look at GB/euro.

    I am not interested in the 30-40GB ssd's, they are to small. Neither am I interested in the high-end ssd's. I'm interested in an ssd with more then 40GB (and less then 80GB) with a decent capacity/performance/euro ratio.

    Well to be precise, I AM interested in the smaller and faster ssd's, because ssd's interest me, and it are mostly wonderful articles, but these reviews hardly help me in my search for the perfect ssd for me. Namely the midrange.
    Reply
  • loimlo - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Kingston uses the same controller across their SSD series. In other words, SSDNOW V series 30/64/128GB drives share identical controller. You can base 64/128GB performance on Anand's 30GB review. That said, 64/128GB should be faster given higher read/write speed compared to 30GB version. Reply
  • Phate- - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    If so, then explain the difference between de V+ second series and the newer V second series. If they are exactly the same, why would they bother with releasing 2 exactly the same, but different named series?

    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1197/1/
    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1237/7/

    Too bad they didn't compare the ssd's with eachother though.
    Reply
  • loimlo - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Despite the same controller, SSDNOW V+ series enjoys better flash memory, thus faster speed, compared to SSDNOW V. That said, I'd purchase Intel G2 rather than SSDNOW V+ given the cost difference is next to none, but performance is better on Intel side. SSDNOW V occucpies better position in comparison to SSDNOW V+ on the market.

    OK, NOW I'll show you the proof of Toshiba controller in Kingston's SSD across the web reviews.
    http://techreport.com/articles.x/18757
    "Kingston's SSDNow V+ series is our first glimpse of Toshiba's T6UG1XBG controller"
    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1242/2/
    "Toshiba T6UG1XBG SSD controller that is being used on the 30GB boot drive. This is the same exact controller that is used on the higher performing Kingston V+ Seires of SSDs,"
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2968/intel-s-x25-v-k...
    "The Toshiba T6UG1XBG controller on this drive is the same controller used in the latest Kingston SSDNow V+ Series drives. "
    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1197/2/
    "The heart and soul of all Kingston V+ Series SSDs is the Toshiba T6UG1XBG SSD controller pictured above."
    Reply
  • Phate- - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    So the Toshiba controller is actually the JMicron controller?

    Quote:
    "It's tough to see and even tougher to photograph but stenciled on the controller chip are the letters T-O-S-H-I-B-A which apparently is a JMicron JMF618 controller but branded as Toshiba as they are the manufacturer. This controller does support TRIM for those running Windows 7."
    http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1237/2/

    And 140 euro for a the Kingston V S2 64GB or 210 euro for the Intel Postville 80GB, that is quite a difference. The cost difference is huge.

    I think your making some kind of mistake, the huge advantage of the Kingston V S2 series is that it is a lot cheaper. There are four "different" drives: The V, the V+, the V+ S2 and then the V S2.
    Reply
  • loimlo - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    First, I'm comparing price of V+ to Intel G2, not V to G2. Second, Toshiba/WD's controller isn't identical to JMicron's reference design mainly because of their in-house firmware tweaks. You can compare Kingston, WD, and JMicron reference design and later you'll find differing speed despite the same IC under the hood in the review(hint: Anandtech's excellent SSD reviews). Last, but not the least, I know there's 2nd generation of Kingston's SSDs, but Kingston still calls them SSDNOW V and SSDNOW V+ on the official website. Kingston never calls V G2 or V+ G2 for their SSD products. In other words, Kingston adopts the very similar way to WD which doesn't explicitly tell the difference between previous and next generation products. You need to specify product model like SNV125S2(30GB)/SNV425S2(64/128GB) to ensure it's V "G2". OK, I've to admit that I've done a lot of work before purchasing a 2nd generation SSDNOW 64GB for myself a few days ago.

    http://www.kingston.com/ssd/default.asp
    Reply
  • Phate- - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I know that firmware is very important, but I've seen no mention of the fact that it all in all is still the same controller, just with different firmware. Annoyingly enough. (If that is even correct.)

    And well, you should look at V-series pricing, that's where this debate started. ;) My whole argument is based solely on the point that the new (S2) V-series are very competative in the ssd market, solely based on their competative pricing. As stated above, over here, you can pick up an 64GB S2 V-series for 70 euros less then the intel postville 80GB, which is quite a lot.

    And the fact that we are having this discussion makes it even more interesting to properly discuss these ssd's on Anandtech.
    Reply
  • loimlo - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Well, you seem to misunderstand my words. I do think V series is better than V+ in terms of price-to-capacity ration. I'll quote what I wrote before.
    "SSDNOW V occucpies better position in comparison to SSDNOW V+ on the market"
    ", I'd purchase Intel G2 rather than SSDNOW V+"
    Also, I've purchased SSDNOW V series 64GB, so you know my decision.

    Btw, I'd like to show my respect and thanks to Anand who made this review and clarified Kingston's TRIM which is missing in previous budget SSD review -- Intel's X25-V & Kingston's 30GB SSDNow V Series: Battle of the $125 SSDs.
    Reply
  • MrSpadge - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I wonder what kind of real world application performance one would get using a normal HDD and one of these small SSDs as Win 7 ReadyBoost drive. Pretty much everything you normally use should be in the cache then, except the video and music collection and games you haven't touched for months. Reply
  • 7Enigma - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I'm glad you mentioned this in the conclusion. I've said it before but for most of the smaller capacity drives (<200GB), and ESPECIALLY these tiny drives, they will predominantly be used as boot drives with secondary large storage mechanical HDD's. Sure someone might put one in a laptop/netbook if they only use it to surf the web, but due to the capacity contraint I really feel these are the perfect-sized drives for desktops that have an extra HDD for mass storage.

    In that case the Random performance and specifically the READ performance is paramount and shows just how good this Intel drive is (if you can justify the higher cost). I personally feel for this group the StorageBench data is pretty much worthless due to the unlikely usage pattern.

    With that said, I think the wait approach is key. Unless you are building a system today waiting for the 80gig 25nm models to come out is a no-brainer. My 80gig G2 Intel SSD is the perfect size IMO for most people as a boot/small set of games/software drive, and to have that for $100 is a STEAL.

    I just built my dad a gaming/editing desktop and the combination of an 80gig Intel G2 and 1TB secondary HDD for under $300 total is just about unbeatable.
    Reply
  • semo - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    good luck waiting for the 80GB G3s. It is very likely that this will be a very popular drive and will be even harder to get than the G2s when they came out. That's assuming Intel does actually release it on time.

    I doubt Intel will make such a drastic cut in price this time around since they know the G3s will sell like hotcakes. They might just wait for the competitors to match their performance figures before they start dropping prices (just like in the CPU arena). Or, if we're lucky they might choose to dictate the market and enter at a low price again (depends how badly they really want to get in to the mainstream).
    Reply
  • Anosh - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Something that is (just about) never mentioned/measured in these test are the life of the SSDs.
    How long can I expect the drive to last? I've been reading on forums about people's SSD drives dying after six months!
    Reply
  • StormyParis - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    MS is taking their own sweet time to come out with ReadyBoost for SSD. In the mean time, would it be possible to benchmark a small, OS-only SSD vs USB3 Readyboost ? I'm wondering what makes more sense, the dumb approach of putting everything on a SSD? or intelligent caching. I'm guessing USB3 levels the playing field for ReadyBoost ? Reply
  • cknobman - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Your reviews always show a breakdown of how a drive performs before and after TRIM. How are you issuing the TRIM command? I thought by default Windows 7 always issued the TRIM command on every operation as long as your drive supported it. Reply
  • gaspard - Sunday, June 06, 2010 - link

    well you can disable it via Windows' fsutil command: fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify NO TRIM: fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 1 TRIM ON: fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0 Reply
  • GullLars - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I've been waiting for an article like this for a few months now, and you did a good job Anand, as always ;)

    I have a couple of questions:
    Why not include OCZ Agility 30GB? ($119 @ newegg)

    Why only test random write and not read at QD 32?
    There is little difference in random writes, but random reads double for the x25-V, and i'd guess increase a bit for the Onyx too.
    A full Barefoot drive can do 60MB/s random read @ QD 5.
    x25-V can do about 70MB/s @ QD 4, and about 100MB/s @ QD 8 for random reads.

    Why not include PCmark Vantage HDD subscores?
    They are made to showcase the strong and weak points of storage performance, and are relevant to what drive to pick. The total HDD score can be the same for two drives with completely different strenghts.
    Reply
  • Dylock - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    The OCZ Agility 60GB is on sale at Amazon.com for 144$, as of today. That's $2.4 per GB.
    An Indilix controller to boot. The lower grade memory comes into play for performance , but not by much.
    Reply
  • Movieman420 - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    Currently a 30gb Vertex is $109 ($99 after rebate)! Instead the Onyx was used which uses 'half' of an Idilinx controller (Indilinx Amigo). I know you had an Onyx handy cuz of recent testing but really. Even tho the Vertex is 'old gear', it woulda blew the doors off the other drives in your testing. Reply
  • u.of.ipod - Thursday, June 03, 2010 - link

    I want a SSD for my HTPC. Hopefully it can be shutdown and booted up more quickly, be more responsive in Windows Media Center 7 and finally to provide space for a second 3.5" storage drive. Is one of these value drives for me? Should I just choose a 2.5" mechanical drive instead? Reply
  • kmmatney - Friday, June 04, 2010 - link

    The Intel 40 GB SSD works fine on Windows XP without TRIM. Just install the Intel SSD Toolbox, and it will perform a "TRIM" or garbage collection routine automatically, once a week. Reply
  • kmmatney - Friday, June 04, 2010 - link

    Whoops - was supposed to be a new comment, and not a "reply"... Reply
  • gaspard - Sunday, June 06, 2010 - link

    whichever one you like, and NO... those are the answers respectively Reply
  • mrmike_49 - Saturday, June 05, 2010 - link

    I'd like to see tests of loading times for various games, start-up as well as level loads. Games are an ideal use for SSDs, many many Reads, very few Writes. A $100 SSD that could triple my load speed (or more) would be nice.

    How about redoing this review, concentrating on actual load start-up times and level loads of popular games??!!
    Reply
  • poohbear - Sunday, June 06, 2010 - link

    When u say in the end "if you're running an OS without Trim support", im sorry are there any other OS other than Win7? if not why even mention "an OS without Trim support" as if to imply there are more than 1 that do provide Trim support? comments like this really confuse ppl about the tech landscape and what's happening. Just say if u're using an OS other than Win7 so it makes it clear what's happening right now. Reply
  • nexox - Monday, June 07, 2010 - link

    To be fair, I'm using TRIM on my 30GB OCZ Vertex in Linux right now. Yes, other OS's do support TRIM. Reply
  • ashegam - Sunday, June 06, 2010 - link

    are moving fast towards the sweet point of price/performance, but we're not there yet. Can't wait until SSD's are the norm and as cheap as regular HD's right now :) I know it will be a few more years. Reply
  • Hrel - Monday, June 07, 2010 - link

    If someone could do a review on the laptop that I currently suspect is the best "bang for your buck" out there. It's made by compal, and available on Cyberpower.com who's machines you've reviewed before. If you'd like it configured like I did, which I think is the best bang for buck, do this: Go to the website. mouse over 15.6" Laptops and click on the $999 Xplorer X6-8500. It has a 1080p screen. (I'm not sure why the people who run this site do this, but even though the other configurations use the same chassis when personalized they come out to cost more than this one; annoying since it makes me configure all 3 or 4 machines built on the same base chassis to figure out which one is cheapest/best for me.) Then I configured it with the Core i7-620M CPU. (to get it over 1K so I can take advantage of the 5% off.) 4GB 0DDR3-1333, hopefully 7-7-7-21, probably not, but hopefully. ATI MR HD5650 1GB GDDR3 320GB 7200rpm HDD (I did this cause I'm gonna take that HDD out and use the Seagate Momentus XT 500GB, thanks for that review!!) Everything else on that page I left untouched. The only thing I did on page 2 was switch to Intel wifi with bluetooth; Though I'm curious if the MSI option is equal/better; 17 bucks isn't nothing. It has HDMI out and a fingerprint reader. This page says 3 USB ports, the specs sheet says 4USB ports; not sure which is true. (I do wish they were USB 3.0 ports, but I was hoping you guys would test some stuff and tell me if that even matters for use with an external hard drive, mechanical disk 7200rpm. Transferring large files like movies and games mostly.) On page 3 I select "none, format only" for the OS. And select "LCD perfect assurance" cause even 1 dead pixel is unacceptable to me. This brings the total to $1008.90 after 5% off, or $992.75 if you get the MSI network card. So yeah, I really hope you guys can get a hold of one of these for review; as a loner or given as a review unit or maybe someone will just buy one and review it cause it's really tempting me right now... like a lot! If you're review is good I'm gonna start saving up and hopefully be able to buy it around Christmas. Thanks guys! A loyal reader. - Brian Reply
  • czesiu - Thursday, June 10, 2010 - link

    "If you don't have TRIM support in your OS, the Onyx isn't a good choice."
    _____

    doesnt OCZ Onyx have garbage collection?
    Reply
  • criticaluser - Friday, June 11, 2010 - link

    I bought one of these Kingston SSDs recently and wanted to take the opportunity to tell gamers to stay away from them especially for games like Crysis. The game stutters and is really unplayable a known good system apart from the newly installed Kingston SSD. It even did a BSOD during a shutdown of Crysi

    Frankly with all of the critisism about JMicron controllers, it is suprising to see him softpedal (and even promote during one of his last articles with CPU Magazine) the clearly poor random read/write preformance of the Kingston drives. His specs tell the truth but his words are misleading.
    Reply
  • criticaluser - Saturday, June 12, 2010 - link

    I can't edit or revoke my previous comment but | found the solution to getting the Kingston 64GB SSDNow to run properly with Crysis.

    I set my system for no paging file and Crysis is running like gangbusters now. The game must have been doing incremental transfers from RAM to the hard drive page file as I filled up RAM by running through the various screens. I guess that constant random writes to the page file caused all the stuttering.

    I don't know if leaving the page file this way will cause other programs to have errors but for the most part I seldom use all 4GB of RAM necessitating the page file so I am going to leave it this way and see what happens
    Reply
  • fsardis - Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - link

    I am not really sure what difference it makes or if it makes any difference at all but I have read in other places that Garbage Collection is dependant upon the file system and as such most of the SSDs out there (if not all) have garbage collection for NTFS only.

    If this is true then it means Linux and Mac users alike are left in the cold. Anand, could you please write an article on the matter or perhaps make sure you mention the details of garbage collection in future SSD reviews for the ones that do have the feature.

    I am looking to replace the disk on my MBP and I am really confused. My understanding is that the Kingston V+ has great garbage collection and would work nicely with the MBP and as an added bonus I can get the upgrade kit and keep my old disk as an external drive. However, does the garbage collection on the V+ function only on NTFS volumes?
    Reply
  • Marburg U - Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - link

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20100...

    Quite interestingly, but Intel decided not to introduce value X25-V 80GB SSDs either in Q4 2010 or Q1 2011 and instead of it the firm plans to release X25-V 40GB drive with 25nm MLC NAND.
    Reply

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