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  • gochichi - Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - link

    I have a Radeon HD 4850 and it's performance per say is very good. early reviews of the card noted that the card was very hot running. They also noted that it was stable despite the heat.

    This was my experience for a long time (I've had problems for about 3 months and I got the card on the week of its release), but now the stability is gone... just saying, reliability over the long haul is important too.

    Not saying that Nvidia is better, just saying that this "great deal" card 4850 runs hot, and running hot eventually turns into a mess for you over time.
    Reply
  • Liujia - Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - link

    If u guys can read chinese, u'll find out lots of Nv trolls/GUNs living in each chinese IT BBS, almost everywhere.

    Some guys ask for help in BBS, the trolls never tire of telling ppl that "Nv card is all through much better on playing games, as lots of game companies give software support to Nv", Furthermore,they always termly complain ATI's driver is terrible......

    Sermonize works......most ppl would rather like to choose 95GT,but not 4650; 96GT,but not 4830; 98GT/98GTX/GTS250,but not 4850....... Just a reminder: each group cards as above mentioned almost sell some price in China......

    In addition, in IT market,most shopman also like to recommend buyer Nv cards, because sell one piece of 95GT/96GT/98GT/250/260 is earning more than sell one piece of 4650/4830/4850/4870 in same price.....And most chinese IT web sites' testing results is lean towards Nv, because Nv is richer and gives them more money & advertising budget.

    I hate unfair competition....unfortunately,it's the realistic world.


    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link

    Maybe the reason is more people in China like Nvidia and more people buy Nvidia *( the latter is a FACT) in China.
    Have you ever thought that might be the case ? Since more people buy nvidia, more people open their yaps claiming to know what is better, and talk up the card they bought, because by golly, "they couldn't possibly have made the wrong purchase" - ya know what I mean ?
    So taking some conspiracy minded idea like "paid operatives" in the text posters area is a bit much, when just the end user numbers can easily account for it.
    Reply
  • Liujia - Thursday, July 16, 2009 - link

    Thanks for your reply.

    I gotta say the most chinese don't know much about hardware market and performance, and they are simplicity and would like to believe others' recommendation or information from IT web sites.

    I think you didn't get the point. Since most chinese just buy the low-end or mid-end cards, so why not you now tell us directly about 94GT VS 3650; 95GT VS 4650; 96GSO VS 4670; 96GT/98GT VS 4830 and which ones are worth buying?
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Sunday, July 26, 2009 - link

    Right, you've got another big fat conspiracy complaint going. Some day you might look at your fellow men as wiser than you, and see that's why nvidia sells more cards. That's why there's so many "trolls" in the BBS's telling people not to blow it with crummy ati drivers - and that's why ati loses a billion dollars a year on sales barely above that and why vendors can't make any money. JUNK is JUNK, and boy do they know junk in China.
    Maybe facing the truth instead of whining about success is the way to start thinking.
    Reply
  • gossmann1 - Friday, July 03, 2009 - link

    I have to agree with SiliconDoc to some degree. This is an unfair comparison unless you are in the market for saving between $10-$50. nVidia makes higher performance cards. This is not an opinion but a fact therefore they cost more. Look at any benchmark on almost any web site. The highest end single GPU card ATI makes cant even compare with the GTX 285 and the same with the dual GPU line-up. Do you pay more....of course that's common sense. Just to give a hypothetical comparison that would imply that a Ferrari should cost as much as a Ford Mustang or that AMD makes a processor that competes with an Intel Core i7 which some may argue but results are what show facts not opinions. Reply
  • iandh - Saturday, July 04, 2009 - link

    Wait, what?

    Look at any benchmark on almost any website... the 4890 and GTX 285 are essentially neck and neck. An OC'ed 4890 beats a stock 285, and an OC'ed 285 beats an OC'ed 4890. The difference? A 4890 costs $200, a 285 costs $330... lets see, 5-10% faster for 35% more money? NO THANKS NVIDIA.

    Same goes for the 4870x2/GTX295. The two are essentially identical, and trade blows in different titles and depending on whether using 1920/2560.

    You know what fanboys are best at... making a molehill into a mountain. Only a fanboy could claim that a 5-10% performance difference is "massively faster", while at the same time completely ignoring pricing.

    Saying Nvidia is better than ATI because their high end single GPU is "so much faster", is basically the same as saying a Lambo is better than a Ferrari because the Lambo has a top speed of 190mph and the Ferrari "only" does 180mph.

    Additionally, the fact is that the Phenom II, C2Q, and i7 all get the same exact framerates in high res single or dual card setups, so anyone who buys an i7 instead of a PII/C2Q for a gaming-only system either 1) likes to waste money 2) is a moron 3) is a rabid foaming-at-the-mouth intel fanboy.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link

    Once again, you won't play a PhysX game, you'll have worse drivers, you'll have no forced sli, you have no built in game profiles, no ambient occlusion, the list goes on and on.
    The comparison is more liked a hopped up Golf vs Lambourghini.
    But you'll, as you did, conveniently ignore everything but a price quote you make, with no links, no two free games I see on Nvidia cards with none on the ATI's ( there's a hundred bucks right there ) - so it's really a bunch of endless hogwash from the same side.
    I see a LOT of Nvidia cards at the egg today with TWO FREE $49.99 EACH games. ZERO ati cards with the same.
    So the argument keeps switching, from a few frames at the highest rez for reds, to the next lower rez when the 275 has a 2560 driver that wins for instance, to the price, even $5-%10 instead of 5-10 percent FPS difference, as long as that favors ATI "at the moment of the statement"... then momments later when it does not... some other thing, reversed again.
    Go ahead and buy ATI, they are losing billions with their pricing, and might fold anyway. Might as well grab what you can when you can. Really what are you people going to do when they're just plain gone ?
    How many more years can they be in the red and still survive ?
    You people might want to start asking yourselves that.
    Reply
  • Resiliant - Wednesday, July 01, 2009 - link

    SiliconDoc, you might try posting like an adult in a calm and mature manner, as it is you come across like an emotionally driven 15 year old who thinks yelling louder than everyone else will make himself heard. Not much constructive in these all these comments here other than stupid bantering back and forth. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link

    Resiliant, anmother complainer who calls names and makes insults, and demands to tell someone else how to post, and you spew your emotrional reaction, but you have ZERO counterpoints. There's plenty of pages and statements, but the problem is not a one of you whiners has the brains to make a counterargument.
    All of you sure do a lot of reading my posts and lot of whining - and lot of "internent insult cleche's" , but not one of you made a counterpoint.
    Oh well, I'm glad you read my posts, as I KNOW the truth has sunk into your skulls, and it will eat away at the bias and lunacy fed you, that you have mindlessly repeated for who knows how long.
    Do yourself a favor and enjoy a PhysX game and some ambient occlusion. Or maybe you cannot.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - link

    As i don't own share in either ATI or Nvidia, I would therefore support strong competition between them. That will give me! maximum return.

    What is don't understand is many choose brand loyalty over their long term interest...

    Is GTX260/4870 the last GPU card you will be getting??
    Reply
  • killerb255 - Wednesday, June 24, 2009 - link

    Troll: SiliconDoc
    Subject: Alleged Brand Bias
    Method: Concept criticism with pseudo-stealth hypocrisy.

    Rating: 8.5/10 - people are responding to the trolling (including myself, of course, for rating it in the first place), but there are quite a few people that are ignoring it (good job!), preventing a 10/10 rating.
    Reply
  • postwarscars - Friday, June 26, 2009 - link

    It's fairly easy to ignore. Though, frankly I'm shocked that our culture has taken such drastic downturns as to wallow in hate mongering over videocard companies.

    I've been around the internet for a long time, and I've seen a lot of arguments between the two main companies and their supporters(and even with VooDoo/Matrox in the picture), but this borders on fanatical extremism. In fact, it's been bothering me that the gaming communities, in general, are tooth-and-claw split by brand loyalty. Since when did playing games or rendering digital imagery result in insult and slander? People have lost their ability to simply enjoy these kinds of things, I think. Videogames are about having fun, so why not have fun?

    Truthfully, if all I ever have to worry about is mild bias towards a computer component company, I think I can sleep happy at night.

    Don't feed the trolls.

    But in all seriousness, who has enough time to actually post all this drab criticism?
    Reply
  • haplo602 - Monday, June 29, 2009 - link

    the first good comment in 11 pages ... Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 29, 2009 - link

    You have plenty of time to post and whine about it, claiming to be above the fray, so you're just like the those you put down. You're holier than thou trick wound up in the "facing yourself" category.
    If you had integrity, you'd judge by whom tells the truth, but the complainers have as little integrity as the liars.
    Reply
  • postwarscars - Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - link

    I know you're a troll, that much is obvious. So, I'm replying(more out of curiosity, sadly(they say it killed the cat after all)) because I felt like going along with your antics, and less because I had "the time" or the energy to "whine" about it. Nor did I ever say I was above the fray, but thank you for letting me know what I said, it's greatly appreciated.

    As for "putting you down," or "judging the truth," I would certainly say neither is correct. For one, I was making simple observations. They are opinions, and aren't fact, much less are they insults. I shouldn't have to remind you of "red rooster," and the other things you've said. Also, your opinions are not fact either, so you have no reason to tout them as such.

    Integrity is something I never claimed to have in the first place, by the way. Though I fail to see how you can hypocritically state "complainers have as little integrity as the liars," considering you've complained next to non-stop across this entire article. Are you telling me your integrity is as frail as those you accuse? Surely you can't be saying that, now could you?

    I wonder, what's it like when you're "facing yourself," and all of that?

    Well, that is my one response on these boards for maybe the next 8 or 9 days. If not longer. Have fun with it as you will.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link

    It seems to me absolutely obvious that you're the worst there is. You claim you can't believe what is going on, but make sure you publicly whine about it, then the very next post you make you're calling names and lying about what you said - your claim that it's so bad you just can't believe it - yet your flapping text claimed you know I'm a troll and tried to give a 2 year old lesson we've all heard a thousand times that opinio aren't facts and vise versa, but like all the rest you haven't a single counterpoint to any substance I posted, and there are plenty of links and factual statements you simply cannot refute.
    So you go the lowest common denominator, claiming you don't have anything but "shock, shock I tell you" at what you see, as if you're a white sepulchered priest, but then down in the dive pit you go, slamming away, as if it's any different when you're just a crud without a card you back or a lie you refute or a correction you make, which of course, you did NONE of the above but whine and call names.
    The truth likely is my points really got under your skin, and you have no response, and you're probably another with a chip on your shoulder, and it will come out.
    Now, you've been nothing but a troll on this page, nothing but a troll and a whiner.
    I have a miniscule shred of respect for you, if you brought up a single counterpoint, but you just focused on what you wante to pretend you're not capable of, then dove under the gutter and into the sewer, adding absolutely NOTHING.
    Unfortunately, for people like you, I have an ABUNDANCE of counterpoints that are never cited here by ANYONE ELSE, they come from me first. That's a problem for people who don't have the brains to comprehend what is really going on.
    You have a nice long time away, or if not, do something other than whining and name calling.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Well, I think they have cracked me - almost - lowest eggs
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
    $140 FREE SHIPPING- and it's a one gig model. No rebate - but for the 1G - it's fan is hard two wired on 100% of the time internal discharge... but boy...
    That's getting close to the - ahh... well... maybe not... No free game...

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
    $150 w/rebate and a free $50 full game.
    or
    $155
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
    ---
    Gee the 4870/512 is only $125 buy no free ship forget it.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
    ---
    Well they got close, if the $140 4870 1G free ship had a free game... man that was close....
    Reply
  • Wellsoul2 - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    I've been waiting for the 1GB 4870 to be $150.

    I just picked up one from Newegg with free shipping.

    It's time to finally retire my Radeon 1900XT 512.
    Reply
  • McRhea - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Best bang for your buck:

    MSI 4890 at ZipZoomFly.com for $125 AR and CB:

    http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid...">http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...amp;thre...

    I got one of these cards back in April for $180 AR and CB, and it really rocks. For that price it can't be beaten... I'm tempted to get another and do crossfire... Must resist!
    Reply
  • moltentofu - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Qty Product Description Price
    . 1 LIAN LI PC-61 COMBO Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 550W (Seasonic SS-550HT) Power Supply - Retail
    Item #: N82E16811112200
    Standard Return Policy $159.99
    . 1 AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGIBOX - Retail
    Item #: N82E16819103674
    $245.00
    . 1 GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
    $79.99
    . 1 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
    Item #: N82E16835100007
    $6.99
    1 Sony Optiarc 20X DVD±R Burner Black IDE Model AD-7200A-0B - OEM
    Item #: N82E16827118011
    $26.99
    . 4 Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model CT25664BA1067 - Retail
    Item #: N82E16820148149
    $115.96
    ($28.99 ea)
    . 1 SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
    Item #: N82E16814102801
    $179.99
    . 1 Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
    Item #: N82E16822136320
    $59.99
    Subtotal $874.90
    Tax $0.00
    UPS 3 DAYS $30.84
    Rush Processing $2.99
    Order Total $908.73

    POSTed first boot, runs cool, stock hardware settings = 16k on 3dmark06 default/free-ware settings. Cha ching.
    Reply
  • moltentofu - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Interestingly, I just checked 3dmark06 scores for i7 920/gtx 275 builds and discovered that they perform about 25% better than my system. Then if I go over to newegg and build a 920 system with 6 gigs ram a 275 gtx and a sub 200 dollars MB I get a price point of about 1100 dollars. 25% more than what my system cost. These people have it down to the wire, huh. Reply
  • grimpr - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Its been a quite sometime since we saw such a little true believer, congratulations kid, you made it!, posting your diarrhea against ATI in Anandtech, for the first time in your life. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    You're the true bbeliever, filled the hate message and the LIES.
    90% of buys are not in 100-150 mark, you're a liar fanboy red rooster.
    " Kudos to AMD for bringing back really fast cards and value at the 100$ to 150$ graphics card segment where the meat of some 95% of sales is, the ATI HD4850 made a big bang for the back and is already a classic card. "

    A CLASSIC. LOL cocka doodle doo !

    "As much as i respect Nvidia, ( YOU DON'T) they completely forgot their old times with the glorious 6600GT ( OH NOTHING GOOD SINCE THE 6600GT! HAHAHAHAHA) and got too greedy,
    PLUS THEY'RE TOO GREEDY ! ROFLMAO The chip on your shoulder is gigantic red fan boy, aka true believer.

    " the big comeback of ATI should teach them a lesson and we're glad for that. "
    Ahh, yer so deranged nvidia "needs to be taught a lesson" and you talk not just for yourself but for "we're" (wee) your whole crew there, huh, ya loon !
    Yeah, a true liar, again, caught, and disappointed by that fact, can only squeal fanboy when yer wearing the absolute mirror image of that.
    AMAZING.
    Another nvidia hater who wants 'em taught a lesson, has declared an ati card a "classic", and doesn't like anything nvidia going way back to 6600gt ! roflmao
    RED RED RED RED ROOSTER. "Truly scarlet!" I must say. haha
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    You are a Nv bot!!! Tireless in spreading your Nv marketing mumbo jumbo... that noone even bother to read!! Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    lol- you're still reading, according to you, that makes you, "noone" !
    BWAHAHAHAAAAAA
    See, you just should not mess, bring a gun, not a peashooter, then have a good reason for using it, I'll take a shot when deserved.
    The other guy laid his soul bare, bleated out that nvidia hatred shoulder chip, we were having a momment, then you came along, again.
    hahah
    ( If you're jealous you shouldn't be, you spilled your guts on the other page and I'm giving you the "win!" for the bigger nvidia hatred on your shoulder chip. He only had profit, and screwed up badly by crowning in glory the 4850 when the 9800 matches it, you however had the "cheeldren" you were fake protecting and had real a manufacturing issue you whined about.)
    hint: Pretend you didn't read this one.
    Reply
  • grimpr - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Kudos to AMD for bringing back really fast cards and value at the 100$ to 150$ graphics card segment where the meat of some 95% of sales is, the ATI HD4850 made a big bang for the back and is already a classic card. As much as i respect Nvidia, they completely forgot their old times with the glorious 6600GT and got too greedy, the big comeback of ATI should teach them a lesson and we're glad for that. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Ok, about three things or so. First of all, 95% of sales are not in your $5 range. DUH.
    Second - ati didn't bring back really fast cards in that range, really fast cards anywhere near that range are a recent phenomena.
    Used to be we spent a lot more than $100 to have decent speed, and not long ago.
    What ati has done, is produce faster cards at lower prices just like nvidia has, and since ati has been around a LOOOONNNG time, we can all REALLY THANK ATI FOR FALLING OFF THE EDGE OF COMPETITION FOR TOO, TOO LONG ! Yes, I've got a 32k isa ati card sitting here, not to mention a pci mach 32, and a mach 64 - etc - or the diamond pci 2/4 meg.
    SO, ATI REALLY BLEW IT FOR A LONG TI9ME AND NVIDIA GOT WAY AHEAD AND EVERYONE PAID BECAUSE THE OTHER BIG VIDEOCARD MAKER COULDN'T DO IT ! ! COULDN'T DO IT !
    ---
    So let's be HONEST instead of repeating the mantra the fanboys spread - if Nvidia made profits or had high prices it was because the other big boy just couldn't HANDLE IT - couldn't handle keeping up.
    When they finally got their act together, they shouldn't be getting praise for all the HATRED of nvidia they promoted because they had nothing in comparison for way too long.
    I say to ati, thanks a lot for not continuing to completely screw up for extended years.
    Good thing they're losing a billion a year, too, ati that is - selling their cards so cheap, unable to get more for them, or trying not very successfully to eat up some nvidia channel sales, by pricing BELOW THEIR COSTS! they are LOSING A BILLION PLUS A YEAR.
    I calculated it once based upon how many chips/cards/ ati sells - I don't quite remember but it was something like 50 bucks loss for every card they sell. So there's the TRUTH - they CANNOT produce at nvidia even to this day, are losing a billion a year, even with their smaller core, and NVidia has made a profit every quarter - EVERY QUARTER. Admittedly the last quarter nvidia's profit didn't grow in the economic worldwide downturn, oh boo hoo.
    ---
    THANKS A LOT ATI FOR BLOWING IT FOR SO MANY YEARS AND LOSING BILIONS STILL !!! THANKS SO MUCH !
    Reply
  • Stas - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    World in Conflict and ETQW... you fail, once again. WiC is optimized for nVidia. so is etqw based on q4 engine, which was wased on d3 engine. and I don't need to remind you about performance difference between R x800 series compared to GF6800 in D3 and then EVERYTHING ELSE. just like now, WiC+ETQW and EVERYTHING ELSE.
    OMG CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS CAPS MAKE MY POINT SO MUCH MORE VALID ZOMGZOMGZOMG
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Age of Conan is ati optimized, and it's Derek's favorite game, and is at the very first spot on all his reviews, always now, with the ati card first, and alphabetical absolute certainty, no doubt. Hmm.. what a coincidence.
    lol
    If I repeat in caps does it make it more valid, too ?
    Usually yelling in person makes more of an impression, wouldn't you say ? hahhaa
    --
    hintS: a point is, no matter the style, as long as the point gets across that's great, especially when one has one.
    Reply
  • FireSnake - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    I don't know under what rock have you been sleeping lately, but ATI is actually making money. And your calculations don't hold water.

    It is true, that they don't make enough, to pay what have been paid for them by AMD ... but, they are making money!

    So, wake up m8 ;)
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    I just posted links, they are not making money and have lost 30% in value, so MATE NOT, you're wrong. Look at my links in this thread or put up proof not your fantasy. Reply
  • Stas - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    geez, who let the little nVidia fans out of the hospital.
    papapapappapaa, you think 4770 is an amazing card and AMD pwnz with that card. ok, great. i don't see how you proved anything other than that you're not worth speaking to or listening to. you bring numbers out of the sky and compare them to what? completely different systems/environments used in lab tests? have more luck with apples vs oranges. I mean, sure, there are ppl that will believe your screaming just because it's so loud, but most ppl here are informed. might try, umm... cnet maybe?

    and whoever complained about 9800 not noted. well, this is for best value, 9800 is not (well, mine was, only because it's $47 AR). plus being the same as 8800gt, if it were to be in a review like this, it should've been... 2 years ago? lol

    oh, yeah, my online penis is BIGGER!!111!!1!
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    the 9800 beats the 4670, 4830(omitted), 4850, and even the 4870.
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...
    ---
    gee that two year old NVIDIA core is STILL kicking ati right square in the nuts and doubling them over.
    ADD DRR5 only to the ati card, or FORGET IT.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Yup! your '9800' is the best card in this planet period.. Beat!! 4890CF overclock till you see stream coming out from the pair of gpus!

    Unfortunately for the rest of us, there no where to can 'ever' own such a special card....

    Hahaha.....!!
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    4670,4830,4850 in this review
    4850 = 9800

    " and whoever complained about 9800 not noted. well, this is for best value, 9800 is not (well, mine was, only because it's $47 AR). plus being the same as 8800gt, if it were to be in a review like this, it should've been... 2 years ago? lol "

    YES, YOU ADMIT YOUR 9800 WAS $47.00
    YOU FAIL TO ADMIT IT BEATS AT MINIMUM TWO ATI CARDS LISTED AND EQUALS A THIRD ATI LISTED - EVEN THOUGH IT'S TWO YEARS OLD.
    ---
    Now it's time to laugh that the two year old Nvidia cards BEATS 3 ATI CARDS LISTED HERE ! ONE OF THEM WITH THE NEWEST ATI CORE, THE 4850 -
    BWHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    two years of beating ATI with DDR3 !
    BWAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    ----
    I KNOW, IT'S SO pathetic FOR ati, THE FANOBY DEREK HAD TO LEAVE THEM OUT !

    Reply
  • erple2 - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    To be fair, the 9800 competing well (and in many cases beating) in performance with the ATI 4850 and 4770 is, in fact, the 9800 GTX+, which unfortunately costs a bit more than the 4850.

    I think that's the problem. The 9800 GT is not the same card as the 9800GTX+ (aka GTS 250). I'm not sure where people are getting their numbers from, if not from thin air?

    All I can think of is that these comments need to be moderated.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    The 9800GT is 112 shaders not 128 like the 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ and the 8800GTS, not to mention the higher stock clocked GTS250, also 128 shaders.
    Here's the link I just gave the guy who got a 4770, if you want to see some numbers.
    http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4770-r...">http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4770-r...
    ---
    Have at it mr censorship. You don't like the truth, too bad !
    --
    Here's another: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canu...">http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha...dup-asus...
    --
    have another how about sli vs 4850x2: http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf-gts2...">http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gf-gts2...
    --
    more? sure :
    http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/4">http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/4
    ---
    How about the OVERALL
    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics...">http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gami...-of-FPS-...
    --
    Ok ?
    Satisfied ?
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    also this article is much better...

    http://www.theonion.com/content/news/new_terminato...">http://www.theonion.com/content/news/ne..._movie_b...
    Reply
  • Drazick - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    Using the GPU for running filters in Photoshop, Using it for Matrix Operations (Matlab, Actually Matlab should be part of your benchmarks suite), Running Open CL code etc...

    It's time we'll exam them beyond their FPS performance.
    Reply
  • pawyon - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    I'm sticking with BFG 9600GT ($74.99 at newegg) ... (10270 points - 3dmark06)
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Finally a smart person.
    I just added to another rig the en9600gso 384 with the glaciator fan from newegg for $35.00 after rebate with THE $49.99 value FULL GAME free COD WAW.
    lol - $35.00 for the card and the game.
    It's the 192 bit 92 shaders G92 core with the Galciator heatsink, one pci-e 6pin and it overclocks like MADDDDDD in XP, W7 32 bit and W7 64 bit, no crashes, no problems, no complaints, just pure performance.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?I...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?I...
    550-1375-1600 became
    703-1705-1900 without even trying - stable as a rock - and I used the included Asus overclocker panel - LOL
    ----
    People who buy ATI are mesmerized, hypnotized, biased review gobbling fools.
    Anyone wonder where the 4770 is in the review ? LOL YOU CAN'T GET BUT ONE PERHAPS AT NEWEGG, TO THIS VERY DAY, and the reviews are in the 6 total area, so ATI has their NEAR PAPER LAUNCH - and Derek here just pretended for this long IT NEVER HAPPENED!
    lol - it's so PATHETIC !!!!!!
    THE DRIVERS DON'T WORK CORRECTLY on the 4770 , IT'S A NIGHTMARE.
    ---
    Thanks for cheering me up a bit by not being a bleating red rooster, like the reviewer, and most the people left looking at reviews here.
    What a SHAME the videocard reviews have become here. I wonder what Nvidia rep beat up Derek and stole his significant other. roflmao
    No GTS250 - no series 9's - WHAT A HOAX OF A PRICE REVIEW !
    ---
    Don't believe a woird of the ATI hype people, there IS A REASON = many reasons why ATI is losing over a billion a year and HAS BEEN for YEARS-
    ATI LOSSES ARE IN THE $$$$$ BILLIONS .
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    damm that is a steal. and nice solid construction there, ati nerfed the hell out of my 4770 (ucheap fukers!) missing lots of stuff there but the performance is intact, and with a s1 + heatsinks = silent freezer on 2d and mad ocer if i want to play! UNMATCHED BY ANY SOLUTION111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    se? i could have bought a better version, it was simply not there.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Yeah you did good getting the 4770, don't let anyone kid ya, the DDR5 is nice at that price, and the xfire reviews are all showing really good scaling. The 9.4 driver thing, well nothing's perfect, you got yer rivatuner and tray tools .
    Yeah, I see one at 119.99 but no rebate or free shipping or anything, but I swear I saw em at 109.99 at first.
    They post some good scores and good overclocks, apparently cutting the "shaders" allows some kind of weird advantage in some situations, or that 40nm drop did well in the minimal rearranging.
    Check this review it's head to head almost with 4850 most of the time at stock.
    http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4770-r...">http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-radeon-hd-4770-r...
    the GTS250 is right there too,and the 4830 is beaten of course.
    It's a good card because it has the top ati core (cut a bit but the ddr5 kept makes it good.) Like it.
    Reply
  • yacoub - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    This article is very helpful! Great pricing roundup. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Yeah, great how they included the 9800's /250's/ 9600's.
    wonderful.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    ah, this article =/= helpful this clowns forget the internet =/= usa

    the revates! go to newegg and buy this! shit great advice sherlock, btw good job ati, is the first time in able to find a decent videocard@ price in my countr, that crap 4850 ? 250 here total rip off. the 4770? 150 also a ripoff but bearable.

    oh, this is a great article, full of win.
    http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/21/diy-vr-game-gun...">http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/21/diy-...lt-in-mo...
    Reply
  • swaaye - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    The Radeon 3850/3870 are about the same price as the 4670 but are faster in most games cuz they have around a 70% advantage in memory bandwidth. Their power usage isn't that much different either.

    It is amazing though how cheap things are really. You really aren't shopping so much for performance, but more with regards to power usage and heat output IMO. If you're after performance and price before all else, don't think twice about going after a 4850 or 4870 with the prices they're at.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    get your facts straight.
    4770 > 4850

    any day.


    "Performance of this part exceeds that of the Radeon HD 4770"

    bullshit. crazy oc? 4770 wins. perf per wat? 4770 wins. perf per dolar? 4770 wins. temps? 4770 wins. size? 4770 wins. noise? 4770 wins. crossfire? 4770 wins. THE ONLY EXCESS OF THE 4850 = HEAT! XD



    IMO anand - employee of the month- IS just trying to pimp old tech, it seems to me he is not pro consumer. ( ONLY PRO AMD)

    HEY ATI LOW YIELDS MY ARSE, THIS 4770 IS HURTING ISNT IT?, NOT ENOUGTH PROFIT? LOL 4850, 4870 NOBODY WANTS THEM ANYMORE, THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG!

    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    " Hey ATI low yields my arse, this 4770 is hurting isn't it? Not enough profit? "
    ATI has lost over a billion a year for the last couple of years.
    Yes years.
    NVIDIA has made a profit all along, except for the last quarter checked in the downturn.
    So much for all the insane squawking about ATI small core profits - they have nothing but a huge freaking multibillion dollar loss!
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Yeah!! yeah!! you are speaking right thru it! Your arse!!! hahaha... Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    joeyfsb the in denial rooting rooster red. (see how I gave you an out of order name speculation there ? :)
    --
    " Markham, Ont.-based ATI Technologies Inc., which is a graphics equipment maker, has reported that it lost $23 million in the third-quarter ended March 31, 2000. ATI, which reported revenues of $288.2 million for the same quarter, has been hurt by declining sales. "
    http://www.faqs.org/abstracts/News-opinion-and-com...">http://www.faqs.org/abstracts/News-opin...issues-c...

    LOL - even in the year 2000 ati lost money !! hahahahhaa
    ---
    jan 23rd 2009 " ATI Drags Down AMD's Fourth Quarter
    Troubled chipmaker AMD has posted losses for the ninth quarter in a row. Weighing heavily on the company is ATI Technologies.."
    ROFLMAO
    http://www.topix.com/com/atyt/2009/01/ati-drags-do...">http://www.topix.com/com/atyt/2009/01/ati-drags-do...
    " AMD recorded revenue of $6.012 billion and a net loss of $3.379 billion. ATI also went down, and analysts say that the company is worth 30 percent less than the $5.4 billion the CPU manufacturer paid for it back in 2006. "
    ----
    uh oh ! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH
    --- http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-to-Lose-1-72-Bi...">http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-to-L...in-Q4-Mo...
    Chip manufacturer Advanced Micro Devices posted a wider quarterly loss as a result of the $1.68 billion charge for having purchased the Canadian graphics chips company ati.
    ---
    whose arse there joey ready for bubba to treat him ? hahah

    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    I am glad i could help the Red rooster this round!!! They deserved my every penny.... Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Well joey, you didn't help them, you robbed 4780/512 card, for $130 was it- copying that other fellas claimed double rebate?(no I really don't believe you if that made you wonder - NO I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! DUH ! ), that probably cost ATI $50 bucks or $75 bucks in losses.
    ---
    So joey, yer now part of the problem - part of the billion dollar diving of ati, you're a corporate raider ripoff artist, small time, but you gouged then in the eye.
    Not very nice really for someone who hates nvidia so much and is a red fanboy.
    When I have an attitude like that I SUPPORT the entity I am rooting for against their "evil competition", I buy something at a high price and two of them, making sure they are HELPED.
    ---
    See, you blew it. I guess in a very selfish, self-centered fashion you ganked away for yourself, for number one, me me me me me, from the in the red company, while it's on possibly, it's last legs.
    Gee, enjoy it.
    Wow.
    With those kinds of friends who needs enemies ATI ?
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Thursday, June 25, 2009 - link

    You are delusional with your Anti-ATI hate. I am happy that ATI kick Nvidia butt this round so they would do better the coming one. Nvidia is a very good and capable company once when they are facing fierce competition. Their Riva 128 against 3dfx voodoo 2. Look what turns up from the intense competition a Riva TNT that offer for the first time 32-bit color and combine 2D/3D graphic into one card which 3Dfx is incapable of producing one at that point of time. A Breakthrough.

    What ATI did today is another breakthrough. Redesigning their RV770 chip to give consumer more 3d rendering power at a lower price point. Which benefit me the consumer and force Nvidia to rethink their pricing policy and maybe their future chip design.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - link

    No joey, we already established that you hate Nvidia, I don't hate ati. Ati cards have more problems and less features, which is really kind of funny. If they cost a few dollars less for performance at resolutions you don't have and don't play and no minimum framerate increase or win in that area, what's the use ? Practically speaking the two brands are within nanometers of eachother in performance, so one should look at the whole package, and nvidia wins that 1000 percent hands down.
    It's useful for you here, to have the nv hate, because you blew up, and emptied out your nvidia chip on your shoulder speil.
    I just like people to be honest, and reviews to be honest and not so biased, or at least someone to point it out. One cannot expect a person to not have a favorite or to like this better than that. It might simply be the color of the cards that makes a difference to a person, just like the color of a car - as many systems for gaming are show pieces.
    So the thing is honesty is ok. If you have a certain bias, say so. I do believe there is deception going on, and I think people in general know it, but want to do so anyway, and generally don't want to openly admit it.
    Look at this article about pressure from AMD for review sites to cave in and give a good review - they might be doing the same to reviewers now concerning ati hardware - and one has to admit the review sites realize if ati goes down from the endless billion dollar losses ( and they might at any time) - there goes competition and "free cards" to review and trips and ad income for review sites - so they have an inherent NEED to keep a failing company alive and going with extra bias.
    I mean for pete sakes, we're in the adult world here. These things go on.
    Nov 7 2007 - I believe they owned ATI then or sohrtly thereafter... http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/18...">http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content...-spider-...
    Reply
  • johnsonx - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    A 4770 often beats a 4830, but costs more. A 4770 never beats a 4850 (except in one outlier, which was most likely due to a driver difference), yet still costs more. Whatever is causing 4770's to be in short supply, it certainly isn't bang for buck. When the day comes that 4770's cost $25 less than 4850's (and the 4830's will presumably be gone), that will be the day that the 4770 is worth buying.

    But, you don't sound like someone with whom rational discussion is possible.
    Reply
  • The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    No he doesn't at all. He's high on something, I'm sure of it. Whatever the reason ignore him :)

    The 4770 is probably short because of recent reviews about CF-ing two of them and getting amazing performance. That's why they're in demand and that's why prices have risen slightly.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    " The 4770 is probably short because of recent reviews about CF-ing two of them and getting amazing performance. That's why they're in demand and that's why prices have risen slightly. "
    ---
    NO THEY HAVEN'T MADE HARDLY ANY OF THEM - IT WAS A NEAR PAPER LAUNCH -
    NOT EVEN NEWEGG HAS ANY BUT ONE - IT'S BEEN THAT WAY SINCE THEIR FIRST 4-9 OF EACH CARD SOLD OUT A LONG TIME AGO.
    ---
    the review numbers on the 4770's tell us all we need to know.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...10679476...
    --
    4 reviews, 1 review and 13 reviews, of those FOUR DID NOT BUY tHE CARD.
    lol
    the 4770 is still UNAVAILABLE because ATI had a "papery launch" and all kinds of problems, but there ya go.... at this place, noone can seem to tell the truth, or even knows what it is - without MY HELP.
    ----
    When there were SIX 4770's listed at the egg - the reviews went up to 2-5 and were SOLD OUT.
    the 4770 is basically NOT AVAILABLE.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    online reviews XD do you think that the will risk pissing off all the
    sponsors? take a look at this numbers and cry, nubcake

    http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6410/3d0616361....">http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6410/3d0616361....

    http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5774/16232c3d.j...">http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5774/16232c3d.j...

    http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9102/djsubi9204...">http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9102/djsubi9204...


    btw my oc temps ? 32c idle 44c load ( 875/1000)
    Reply
  • The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    Clap, simply amazing. You're such a hot stud! You have no need for "online reviews." The best answer is, DON'T BOTHER TO COMMENT? It's obvious from your controlled and fair comparison(s) that your test results are the ONLY REAL results to go by. Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    don't bother to comment?... >< Are you dumb or what? The answer is in the numbers. Is not my fault if you are too slow to understand them! at least try to make an effort! blah



    Reply
  • The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    How old are you? Did you not understand any of my sarcasm at all? If you like your numbers so much without any other details and/or fair comparisons to say the 4850 in subject, then please don't even bother commenting. Here's why...

    1. Your numbers are meaningless, absolutely MEANINGLESS to anyone else but your pride

    2. You lack details as to how you obtained your numbers

    3. You dispute online reviews because you think your numbers are the final truth. Do you even understand how they went about getting the numbers they do?

    4. You are posting in a section that does have knowledgeable members, one of which is me. At least think before you post something meaningless and thought provoking.

    I can list more but why. Here's an easier answer that you'll like for sure. YOU WIN, I am wrong. Nothing I said is right at all. Leave us in peace.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    how old? mmm you sound like a super pedo, so no . and yes i like my numbers, especially 100usd. you provided your tame 4850 numbers@ nonsense, rant, i submitted facts. (actually they are not my pics, im to lazy to post them, go to xtremesystems 4 more info) the meaning? is up to you understand the implications knowledge guy, put that knowledge to use and make your own conclusions, im not going to explain myself to you mr lair @ ignorant ( saying that the 4850 is better is plain ignorance@ bs unless u are really cold @ work 4 the electricity company) and yes you are wrong, but i dont care. enjoy your payment from ati. Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link


    stock 4850 > 11964 3DMark06

    stock 4770 > 12308 3DMark06

    915/1000 4770 > 14122 3DMark06

    im not discussing with you, im laughing AT YOU.
    learn, then you can talk.noobs.. XD
    Reply
  • The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/...lay/main...

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Thanks for the two good links that show a lot of data this review left out, like the 9800 /250 beating the 4670, the 4770, the 4830(by default>), and the 4850 in many cases.
    THAT'S WHY THE 9800 FLAVORS SHOULD BE IN THIS PRICE LIST.
    But the bias here is more important.
    Gee, the 9800 beats the 4850 nearly every single time and beats even the 4890 ! LOL
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mai...
    ---
    yes so much for "fair" here.
    Thank you tho - thank you very much.
    Yes I did view the average price charts as well.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    This is THE card. Amazing. 900/1000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4850 @ 4870
    oc temps? 32C idle 44C load, with S1 mod. cheap. fast. cool.perfect.

    cons? ati software, ati keypooler, ati smart, ati ccc, ati Framework,ati cat Instal Manager, Visual C++, driver cleaners,
    (stupid bloatware)

    solution? Tray Tools, riva,gpuz, and JUST the display driver.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Great, at least you're good enough to know, but imagine all the "they were happy" kids when they opened their ati present and bloated and gummed their systems...with all that ati crapware drivers mess.
    Yeah.
    Fine for experienced people who can spend hours hacking away at the drivers and downloading special software... but for the average person THEY ROYALLY SUCK !!!!, and you were lucky to FIND a 4770 you could buy - still they are MISSING even from new egg.
    ---
    Nvidia on the other hand is a painless driver install even for the green nooo0oob, and their control panel is great and acts like it's not even there.
    ---
    I liked the 4830 deal when it hit before they raised the price, and the 4770 is great for pricing(ha! if one could buy it !), it's just not available.
    ---
    ati is lucky Nvidia hasn't used DDR5 yet, that's the truth times 10.
    -
    the old NVIDIA grandpa g92 core kicks and smokes anything ati with ddr3 - that includes the 4760 4830 4850 -
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Thursday, June 25, 2009 - link

    From your posting i only registry one fact that you HATE ATI! period. Have you ever bought any of their product to warrant such hatred.

    Geeezz! you really think people will stop buying what they prefer because you told them otherwise. My 8800GT is in another system used by my mom. I am happy with it for what its worth. 8800GT is the best bang for buck in 2007 but no longer the case for 2009 otherwise why would Nvidia get off their lazy butt to product anything new.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - link

    Yes I have bought their products, and have at least half a dozen here right now.
    But since you asked and I'm here again, let me tell you what just happened with the latest red card install.
    The system is a barton 3000+ on a GA700N pro 2 rev. 2 (that's a pc3200 with 8xagp, 1.5 sil raid, quad giga ite raid, and 4 ide channels for up to 10 harddrives ON BOARD). I was putting it together as a gift for a friend, as another programmer friend gave me his in an silver all matched w/drives case, so I got the old one out and put it together.
    So in goes the formerly $160.00 red rooster 1950GT agp, which as I recall was a nightmare trying to get a decent picture and framerate out of Witcher - turn on the lighting and everything goes WHITISH overblown- and no driver could solve it.
    So anyway, XP32 in and the red rooster site AMD/ATI has a 9.3 or an 8.xx driver recommended - and I have the original CD as well -
    Well, to make a long story short it was a NIGHTMARE - the dang thing just could NOT complete a 3dmark2001se - crash, crash crash right after NEO in the hallway...
    Finally I just gave up and slapped in the 512 meg 7600gs so my friend would have a little less power but at least the computer wouldn't be rebooting and blowing him out of games.
    Yes, the agp "hotfix" was tried, Omega 3880 drivers and various other things. Oh well, sometimes ati just cannot get it right.
    I do KNOW I had it working at some point, with Omega drivers, ati tools, and an older XP (not bloated with all the latest hotfixes) but that was under driver 7.2 I believe - a bit long in the tooth now.
    So there you have it - another ati nightmare I just went through.
    The nvidia card just "went right in" without issue, no dorking around, no problems.
    Yeah, so there's another not often mentioned ati PROBLEM - the AGP card slot, now it gets a "hotfix" - that doesn't work correctly.
    Another friend got the 3850 AGP for his one favorite game a number of months ago - and wound up sending it back, it wouldn't work right -
    Yet another was SCREAMING about the 4670 he got - how screwed up it was - he either sent it back or threw it away, and got an Asus 9800gt Ultimate (128 shaders, overlocked to the wind, and 120 bucks 4-6 months ago). They're ALL GONE and have been- snapped up.
    Another - 2900HD sapphire (256bit 320 shader) - was stuck for years at 500/503 in a dell 2.8 HT 915G board. It ONLY WORKED WITH THE ORIGINAL DRIVER CD. Nothing from AMD/ATI could even make it run.
    Then it was in a 570i SLI board, and after endless manipulations it finally cranked out 3D core and mem speed - and happily (for another friend) it turned out to be an amazing overclocker - that person was still using it last week before he cooked a board overclocking everything to the wind. We still don't know if red rooster survived.
    No, I've had more red cards than you've ever seen, that's for sure, and worked on more than you can count.
    Here's the other side - 64M nvidia mx400 agp - this was about 3 months ago, on another system, don't remember the board, booted her up and heard a pop and the screen went dead - I knew it was the videocard, it was run 24/7 for years - so that person had to buy something new. So yes, sometimes nvidia's croak, but that was a long time coming.
    Oh, the 7600gs completed 3Dmark2001se - no crashing, same board, same xp install, same 3dmark archive, just ran right through it no hassles - admittedly the score is lower than the 1950gt would get if it could complete the test. LOL
    Have a nice day.
    Reply
  • papapapapapapapababy - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    yep, ati drivers@ccc are just terrible, and yep i really DONT GET why people hate nvidia for re-using his great g92 core, and what about ATI? no hate? why? Basically they do the same, yes with small improvements, etc but look > 4730,4770,4830,4850,4870,4890 and x2

    RV770 AND THIS IS WHY THE 4770 IS THE BEST CARD TO GET! thanks ati, ill take the GDDR5 memory, 40nm process, low temps, crazy GPU clock rate, low power envelope, mind blowing filtrate and all this performance that exceeds all your previous solutions, you can have your puny cores missing back!!!
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    "Basically they do the same, yes with small improvements, etc but look > 4730,4770,4830,4850,4870,4890 and x2 "

    are known as RV770(2008), this generation.

    G80(2006)->G92(2007)->GTX250(2009) = same generation. (no change) Not necessary bad just that we expect Nvidia to innovate. I putting my dollar to the one that give more competition and innovate so that i receive better value for my money.... Nvidia is not doing that recently...

    I have bought 5 generations of their cards from Riva TNT, Riva TNT2, Geforce 3, Geforce 6, Geforce 8. Will be getting their dx 11 card unless ATI provide me with more value yet again...
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Well can't blame you for snatching the 4770, the few that were out, I'd just love to hear derek complain about it being a near paper launch, but boy is it silent on that front.
    I saw one on the egg for 119.99, just one, a powercolor, then it was gone. Was 3 there yesterday listed all sold out with the grey tab showing.
    None at tiger.
    The 4830 was a nice deal at like 79 bucks at first, but yeah the 4770 DDR5 is amost a 4870- might as well be.
    Can't blame ya nice grab, I just don't get the not available thing, ati may have realized they screwed their 4890 completely.
    It's all quiet- all the red roosters don't say a word - we're all supposd to pretend it's available - and that really pisses me off.
    BIAS again.
    Anyway have fun with it, hope you get a match for it soon enough then have some real nice xfire numbers.
    Yeah the big price thing of Derek and not a WORD, 4770 just not listed or mentioned. TOTALLY BIASED.
    Then the x9800x left out.
    I was at another site with the 4470 xfire rave going on in their GTX275 review yesterday (they jsut HAD to add that 4770 x 2 line in to make red look good even though they had a separate whole raving review for it) , and I pulled their 9800GTX SLI numbers from their month or so ago review and put the links in because at the HIGHEST rezzes with the candy turned all the way up - the 4770 x2 pulled a 68.0 framerate and the 9800GTX/250GTS whatever sli did 66.4 - and I just HAD to tell the boneheads.
    ---
    Have fun.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    You called us bonehead and yet to spent so much energy on us. When I buy a graphic, I read like 10 to 20 reviews to get a general free on what's what. I am well aware of Reviewer's bias and pay sites.

    I also visit new eggs for buyer's purchase experience before i put my money down on the card be it whatever brand... I am not going to take a single person opinion and commits my money.

    I have to eyeing on the 4870 since launch and only pick it up recently at a heavily discounted price, $130. The reason why i don't pick Nvidia this time is that Nvidia PR or marketing has screw up. I work in the serve tech sector and can see the no. of defective gmpu they have created for our student. Nvidia did not make good on that, they promise to fix the defective gmpu but end up a fan speed fix.... unacceptable....

    They use their influence to request ubisoft to remove dx10.1 support of AC just because it runs better and therefore make them look bad.

    There so many bad rep lately for Nvidia that i am beginning to think they did it deliberately to lower their stock price. Whatever...their scheme i hope it crush and burn!!! just like their Notebook gmpu...
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Ahh, once again the raging red rooster spews out, finally, his IMMENSE HATRED toward nvidia.
    Like I said, it is not I whom is the raging fanboy. The only thing I've ever said about ati is driver issues and they're losing money, only to point both out to the red raging roosters with their gigantic endless set of chips on their shoulders.
    I have zero dislike for nvidia or ati.
    I like both of them, and why shouldn't I ?
    It's YOU PEOPLE that have gigantic emotional problems and some deeply buried set of chips on your shoulders, that I and everyone else doesn't know about, until you finally DUMP all over the board - open up as it were, and then it's finally clear to me WHY you have argued and called me this or that or said utterly crazy, biased, ridiculous things, and denied so many others.
    Well, I'm sorry for your gigantic HATRED of nvidia.
    Would you like to tell us al how nvidia reps SHOULD act, like so many others before you ? LOL
    ROFLMAO-
    Thanks for coming clean. I do appeciate it - at least there is a reason for your problem, you claim.
    Whatever, there are more where that came from on both sides.
    I hope you enjoy ripping off ati and bankrupting them, or stealing everyone else's tax dollars to keep her afloat. LOL (I recall you felt that was a "buzz killer" when I mentioned it easrlier - hahahaa )
    See, sometimes if you're looking you can find a big fat hatred chip for any entity - goes both ways. Hahaaa
    I'm just not like that.
    Glad you're sticking up "for the children" (BWAHAHAAH!)and "their laptops" but I hope to Dear God ! you aren't teaching, because that would be real abuse, too.
    Have a nice lack of ambient occlusion, PhysX, gaming profiles, and forced dual - not to mention forced aa and af. Other stuff too, but whose counting.
    What you want for that 8800Gt?
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Sorry, I think I shouldn't have asked you on the 8800GT here, I think that's supposed to be the forum or something. My apologies. Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    For the record... I am using ATI 4870 512Mb. No problem with driver what so ever.... In other words, i am completely happy with my purchase period...
    Reply
  • bill3 - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    But the 4890 is the deal right now. Watching hot deals forums I have seen consistent deal for 4890's for 160-170 after rebate the last few weeks. Even one with two rebates for 135. Free shipping no tax on these deals usually.

    In contrast it's competitor the 275 I dont see those deals on. The 275 seems stuck in the solid 240 range for a brand name.

    I think this is where AMD's smaller die is paying off.

    Not only that but I may be wrong, but I seems to be noticing a trend on some newer games where the 4890's superior shader power is paying off. For example although the game's a mess, 4890 leads all single GPU cards including the 285 in ARMA 2. I suspect going forward the 4890 may improve relative to other cards in the benchmarks. Making it often even faster than a 285.

    Oh and I forgot to mention a rumor I read a while back the AMD is going to cut prices soon to make way for the 5800's. Supposedly the 4890 is to drop to 199 MSRP. Considering the street prices we see on it when the MSRP is 249 (I think?) if that's true street prices and after rebate deals could drop to absurdly low on the 4890 if that happens.
    Reply
  • johnsonx - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    I have to say the 4850 512MB is the absolute best purchase for those gaming using 17 & 19" displays (you know, the display you spent several hundred dollars on a few years ago and see no need to replace just because bigger ones are cheaper now). At 1280x1024, you can turn pretty much every setting on hi/ultra/max (whatever the game in question calls it) and still get great frame rates (and I'm talking games like Crysis Warhead).

    Two weeks ago my son bought a sapphire 4850 from newegg for $103 including tax and shipping, and there was a $15 rebate on top of that (being a teenager he completely ignored what I told him about submitting the rebate and did it wrong, so he won't get it, but the rest of you are smarter than that). He is universally pleased with it and had money left over to buy Prototype.

    $100 ($85ar) for what is in effect a high-end card just can't be beat (it's high-end considering the display being used.. paying twice as much really won't gain anything other than meaningless fps, a point it took me two weeks it impress upon him)
    Reply
  • johnsonx - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    wow, the same card is down to $85 w/promo code ($92 w california tax), and there's still a $10 rebate. how can you pass that up? Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Yeah, how one can pass it up is the gtx260 overlcocked by MSI for $145 after rebate.
    More ram and better all around, period.
    Or get any 9800 core, better all around as well.
    There are games the ATI cards CAN'T play - not just because of the screwey drivers, but because they don't have PHysX - so they crawl.
    Then, their cores are smoking hot and will electromigrate - more returns - more stress on their board components, louder fans, bloated software... the list goes on and on.
    Watch out for the "monthly drivers" or you'll break some of your games.
    I can pass it up - really easily.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Can't Play a game because ATI card don't have PHysX....
    hahahaHAHAHAH!!!....

    Its a running joke now, imagine 2 years from now...No one will remember it exist!!
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html">http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html
    ..
    Total environmental destructon is going big.
    The water and particle control is getting big.
    -
    I predict the SOFT squishy physx which adds another never before seen in games dimension is going to go big soon - so many gamers are going to want to "squeeze" that hottie in their game or watch her bounce in her feudal garb or college tee. We're talking whole bodies with ultra smooth edges and soft flesh - as well as furniture and in game objects (food, spandex, plastic trash cans, etc. )having a real rubbery and elastic look and action to them.
    Going away ?
    BWHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Roflmao !
    " In conjunction with the release of the GeForce Power Pack, NVIDIA has also released new WHQL-certified drivers that enable PhysX acceleration for all GeForce 8, 9, and GTX 200 Series GPUs. This new driver also adds support for PhysX-accelerated features in the commercially available Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 game.
    By installing these drivers, GeForce owners can immediately experience much higher levels of interactivity, special effects, and realism on their PC. In addition, GeForce owners will love being able to run PhysX-accelerated applications faster on their GeForce GPU than on competitive GPUs. For example, in the PhysX-enabled levels of Unreal Tournament 3, the GeForce 9800 GTX+ runs 180% faster than on the AMD Radeon HD 4850. "
    --- Tue, 12 Aug 2008
    http://www.i4u.com/article19659.html">http://www.i4u.com/article19659.html
    180% FASTER than the 4850 with the " 2 years old technology " nvidia g92 core ! ROFLMAO
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Is that another hope for you joey ? Are you suddenly Cleo again, all for your red rooster rage bias ?
    I saw Anand ADMIT he LOVED PhysX in Mirror's Edge, and it's only getting better as games become more and more complex. The SOFT PhysX is SPECTACULAR - and gives new meaning to "squeeze and squish" in games, and it's coming.
    Let's not forget the new driver releasing ambient occlusion to the overwhelming majority of the masses (THAT HAVE AN NVIDIA CARD, not an ati card).
    The truth is - ati may be a card that is forgotten in two years, they are still bleeding a bilion loss with barely a billion in sales, and without a cash infusion in the billions, they are going DOWN to bankruptcy. It's amazing they've lasted this long. While you cost ati a LOSS by buying any of their cards, you cheer that PhysX won't be remembered ?
    ROFLMAO !
    hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    Gawd !
    Nvidia has made a profit all those quarters and years of ati billion dollars in the red losing $,$$$,$$$,$$$.$$
    Tsk tsk Cleo !
    The rooster card's bottom line is D E A D.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    PhysX will inevitable share the same fate as Creative EAX 5... too high tech that no one bothers.... Will any game developer use PhysX to modify the game play experience, even if they do.. those are the title best be avoided.

    No single GPU card can run demanding games like Crysis/Warhead in full details... I don't see how there will be any free GPU cycle to render PhysX in a meaningful way.

    So, at present its just a marketing gimmicks for Nvidia that will not change just like Creative X-Fi sound card.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    There already are free cpu cycles to render PhysX, even on hacked down 9600 nvidias.
    I don't know, maybe if you actually did jump from your 8800, you ought to use all that extra money you saved on your 4870 was it - and get that PhysX card into a system - heck just the other review you claimed you still had the 8800GT, so you just jumped -
    You won't be playing PhysX games, want to sell yer 8800GT ? How much ? I have a buyer for it.
    I see 6 PhysX games there > http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html">http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_new.html
    There's 100 more at the older link.
    http://developer.nvidia.com/object/physx_good_comp...">http://developer.nvidia.com/object/physx_good_comp...
    Game Title Developer Platform(s)
    2 Days to Vegas Steel Monkeys PC
    Adrenalin 2: Rush Hour Gaijin Entertainment PC
    Age of Empires III Distineer Studios Macintosh
    Age of Empires III: The WarChiefs Distineer Studios Macintosh
    Alpha Prime Black Element Software PC
    Auto Assault Net Devil PC
    Backbreaker Natural Motion TBA
    B.A.S.E. Jumping Digital Dimension Development PC
    Bet on Soldier: Blackout Saigon Kylotonn Entertainment PC
    Bet on Soldier: Blood of Sahara Kylotonn Entertainment PC
    Bet on Soldier: Blood Sport Kylotonn Entertainment PC
    Captain Blood Akella PC, XBox 360
    Cellfactor: Combat Training Artifical Studios, Immersion Games PC
    Cellfactor: Revolution Artifical Studios, Immersion Games PC
    City of Villains Cryptic Studios PC
    Crazy Machines II FAKT Software PC
    Cryostasis Action Forms PC
    Desert Diner Tarsier Studios PC
    Dragonshard Atari PC
    Dusk 12 Orion PC
    Empire Above All IceHill PC
    Empire Earth III Mad Dog Software PC
    Entropia Universe MindArk PC
    Fallen Earth Icarus Studios PC
    Fury Auran Games PC
    Gears Of War Epic Games XBox 360
    Gluk'Oza: Action GFI Russia PC
    GooBall Ambrosia software Macintosh
    Gothic 3 Piranha Bytes PC
    Gunship Apocalypse FAKT Software PC
    Heavy Rain Quantic Dream PC
    Hero's Jorney Simutronics PC
    Hour of Victory nFusion Interactive XBox 360
    Hunt, The Orion PC
    Huxley Webzen, Inc PC, XBox 360
    Infernal Metropolis Software PC
    Inhabited island: Prisoner of Power Orion PC
    Joint Task Force Most Wanted Entertainment PC
    Kuma\WAR Kuma Reality Games PC
    Magic ball 3 Alawar Entertaiment PC
    Mass Effect BioWare XBox 360
    Medal of Honor: Airborne EA Los Angeles PC, XBox 360
    Metro 2033 4A Games PC
    Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire BEC Playstation 3
    Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia Artificial Studios PC, XBox 360
    Monster Truck Maniax Legendo Entertainment PC
    Myst Online: URU Live Cyan Worlds PC
    Open Fire BlueTorch Studios PC
    Paragraph 78 Gaijin Entertainment PC
    Pirates of the Burning Sea Flying Lab Software PC
    PT Boats: Knights of the Sea Akella PC
    Rail Simulator Kuju Entertainment Ltd PC
    Red Steel Ubisoft Paris Wii
    Rise Of Nations: Rise Of Legends Big Huge Games PC
    Roboblitz Naked Sky Entertainment PC, XBox 360
    Sacred 2 ASCARON Entertainment PC
    Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened Frogwares Game Development Studio PC
    Showdown: Scorpion B-COOL Interactive PC
    Silverfall Monte Cristo PC
    Sovereign Symphony Ceidot Game Studios PC
    Sonic and the Secret Rings SEGA Wii
    Speedball 2 Kylotonn Entertainment PC
    Stalin Subway, The Orion PC
    Stoked Rider: Alaska Alien Bongfish Interactive Entertainment PC
    Switchball Atomic Elbow PC
    Tension Ice-pick Lodge PC
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter GRIN PC, XBox 360
    Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 GRIN, Ubisoft Paris PC, XBox 360
    Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas Ubisoft Montreal PC, XBox 360, Playstation 3
    Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent (multiplayer) Ubisoft Shanghai PC, XBox 360
    Tortuga: Two Treasures Ascaron Entertainment PC
    Two Worlds Reality Pump PC
    Ultra Tubes Eipix PC
    Unreal Tournament 3 Epic Games PC, XBox 360, Playstation 3
    Warfare GFI Russia PC
    Warmonger: Operation Downtown Destruction Net Devil PC
    W.E.L.L. Online Sibilant Interactive PC
    Winterheart's Guild Zelian Games PC, XBox 360
    -----------------------
    I guess yer now SOL on all those.
    LOL
    roflmao
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Thursday, June 25, 2009 - link

    These are pre-Nvidia PhysX titles, care to post the ones developed in 2009. Intel's Havok has x10 the amount of pre-Nvidia PhysX titles why don't you post that...

    Havok is clearly are better choice as its supported by both ATI and Nvidia. I really appreciate its CPU's Physic rendering characteristic, I still have plenty of free CPU cycle leave.. GPU cycles i prefer to keep it for my 24" monitor 3D rendering of 1920X1200.

    Nvidia PhysX is illogical. Using my precious gpu cycle to render things like snow flake...but the game craw at 15 fps....

    I hope all developers see the light and give up the idea of using Nvidia PhysX!! USE HAVOK instead!!!
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - link

    That would be your needy ati card that can't handle PhysX, not an Nvidia that handles PhysX and the games well - and Havok. More for your money with Nvidia. Ambient Occlusion, too.
    So, if you're still hurting with your new ati card, I guess you didn't buy a good enough card.
    Some games you just can't play with an ATI card. CAN'T PLAY at a crawl.
    LOL
    It is true. Sorry for your AND ati's loss.
    Reply
  • Dudler - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    My GOD! I guess this is the first time EVER ATi Gfxcards has had the leading edge in EVERY price segment. Be sure to take screens/save this article for future reference to bang for buck value. :)

    The only objection I have to the list is the 4850X2/GTX285 issue. These cards have the exact same performance, but the 4850X2 is cheaper, so the 285 shouldn't be there at all, it really competes with the 4870X2. While 48701GB /GTX260c216 is virtually equal performance, the 48701GB will perform better in 2560x1600.

    For more interesting reading on value, try the "Crisis managment" articles over at XBitLabs:
    [url=http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/.../radeon-...]4770 CF[/url]
    [url=http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...]4830 CF[/url]
    [url=http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/rad...]4670 CF[/url]

    @Jackattak
    What part did you not understand? The fact that 4890 and GTX275 has the exact same performance and that 4890 is cheaper and more easily oc'd?
    It is as in the saying:
    "The idiot and his money...."
    Because you sure have to be one to buy nVidia today.

    Thx ATi, your this generations(2008-2009) champ :)
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    The justification for not promoting the 4850 X2 or even 4870 X2 cards over single GPU solutions is that multi-GPU is still not something everyone wants in their box. There are still scaling and compatibility hitches especially with ATI and especially when new games/drivers are released.

    Most people shouldn't see big problems from this, but it is an issue. For now, I prefer to treat multi-GPU and single-GPU as not competing in exactly the same space in every instance because I believe they don't. As multi-GPU gets better and as time goes on this will change, but for now I think that there is a case to be made for the single-GPU over the multi-GPU single card that is outside of price and general performance.
    Reply
  • Xzylvador - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    In these times where power-efficiency and eco-friendliness concerns more and more people, why is there no mention of this in any recommendation? For example, while there's no argument that 2 GTX275's are cheaper to buy than GTX295, if I remember correctly, 2 GTX275's will drain over 100Watts more than a single GTX295. I'm not going to do the math here, but even if not considering environmental inpact, chances are that during the card's lifetime, you'll pay more in electricity than you saved buying the "cheaper" option. Reply
  • Roland00 - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    Using data from toms hardware.
    275 SLI at stock 275 speeds
    405 load, 205 idle

    275 SLI at the slower 295 speeds
    358 load, 194 idle

    295
    314 load, 184 idle

    So assuming you game 4 hours a day, every day of the year, the rest of the time your computer is at idle; and power costs your 14 cents for kill o watt hour. You will spend 40 dollars and 16 more for the 275 sli rig during a year (18.60 during gaming, 21.46 during idle)

    If you downclock the 275 to 295 speeds (so we are doing a much closer speed comparison since the 275 sli is faster) you will spend 19.21 more for the sli rig during a year(8.99 during gaming, 10.22 during idle)

    Now if someone can afford $500 dollars for graphic cards; they will not keep the cards for longer than 2 years. Thus the power savings really won't save you much if any money. (Especially if this customer is power conscious and would waste the time doing the calculations, he would turn off the computer when he isn't using it or use sleep mode thus less idle numbers as well as the possibility of downlclocking the gpu.)
    Reply
  • OCguy - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    AT? Loves AMD? Well spit on chest and sell me a midget.... Reply
  • Roland00 - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    I just want to point out there are some deals to be found out their in addition to the typical mir fair. I just recieved today an xfx 4890 which cost me 171 shipped at ewiz. It also included a free oem version of hawx. Reply
  • Anvildk - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    What always annoy me with these reviews is point of view. You can not really consider graphics power without taking the cpu into account.

    I would love to see testing results with different cpu and different graphics cards.

    Benchmarks are always based on a high end I7 core setup to provide the best test results and ensure it is not limited in any way.
    I for one would love to know how graphics cards perform depending on cpu.
    It might appear daunting to test every cpu with every graphics design but it could probably provide some insight.
    Most people look at these benchmarks and purchase with that in mind.
    Few people consider that their cpu might actually be a bottleneck and their new shiny 250$ graphics card can not perform to that effect unless it is in said high end i7 core system.
    Reply
  • Judguh - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    You have a CPU Bench for comparisons on CPU's... why not create one for graphics cards?

    I'm just wondering... I know it's a lot of work to even do a bunch of benchmarks for the processors but then to go back and create a new database for graphics... a lot of work, but an idea none-the-less!! :)
    Reply
  • EglsFly - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Anybody bench compare these two cards? At only $20 difference, I would like to know which is the better of the two. Reply
  • Roland00 - Saturday, June 20, 2009 - link

    He doesn't really need to bench those two cards against each other for he has already benched the 4850 cf as well as the 4890. Taken from Anandtech Multi GPU article and the 4890/GTX 275 article (different articles but they use the same hardware and the same drivers with the exception of the 4890 using a beta since the real ati drivers weren't out yet at the time of the article.) These are the 512mb versions of the 4850

    Resolution is 1920x1200 for all the info I give (you shouldn't be using cf if you have 1680x1050)

    Crysis Warhead
    4890-31.7
    4850CF-32.7

    Farcry2
    4890-42.1
    4850CF-45.6

    Fallout3
    4890-58.1
    4850CF-58.1

    Call of Duty World at War
    4890-66.5
    4850CF-77.9

    Age of Conan
    4890-38.7
    4850CF-56.3

    Left4Dead
    4890-83.9
    4850CF-96.1

    RaceDriver Grid
    4890-97.4
    4850CF-92.5

    So with the exception of Age of Conan, Call of Duty WaW, Left4Dead, and Race Driver Grid all other titles are within 3 frames of each other. Call of Duty and Left4Dead don't really count for both cards are above 60fps for the average fps. In RaceDriver Grid the 4890 is actually faster, but once again doesn't matter for both cards are above 60fps.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    What does matter are MINIMUM framerates which are the awful slows to a crawl or messes up one's timing spots in the games, and nvidia from all the reviews I've seen showing it have that WON even in the highest resolutions.
    So a few frames at the top are not the place to go to, nor are the averages, but a decent showing with the highest "low" framerate is what a smart gamer purchases.
    There is a reason minimum framerates are not shown.
    GTX260 is REALLY GOOD on keeping minimum framerates high, and often beats the 48xx series because their cores are so stressed already with mghz that when they hit a slowdown it's pronounced.
    The GTX275 is also great on lowest frames.
    So, people should remember it's not just a few frames at the top, nor is it the average. People should look at that, especially with lesser cpu's and memory than the test rigs reviewing.
    Reply
  • SunSamurai - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Can we add all these cards to the bench?


    PLLEEEAAASSEEEEE
    Reply
  • The0ne - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    Xbit labs did a review with performance and price. Reply
  • deputc26 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    They're good for you
    they're good for me
    S-S-D(s)

    I'm getting scared that with new SSDs getting launched every day Anandtech's insight on the matter will be delayed indefinitely.
    Reply
  • ratbert1 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    ZZF has the HIS 4890 1gb for $185 with a $20 rebate. That is a great price. It is the reference 850mhz card, but no matter, what a price!
    Reply
  • mcnabney - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    I already have one 4850 in my HTPC (which I also game on) and would like to increase performance.

    Is buying a second 4850 and doing Crossfire a wise choice?

    I am concerned about added heat, additional power use, and Crossfire bugs. Does two 4850s compete favorably with a 4890? I will be running at 1080p and have a Core2 Duo at 3.2ghz.
    Reply
  • Clauzii - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Two is very nice in most games ;) Reply
  • McRhea - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    I got a 4890 back in April right after reviews started coming out. I love this card, it's amazing. I upgraded from an 8800GT. Got the card for $180 after cashback and a MIR in the Hot Deals forum.

    If you have a 1920 x 1200 monitor, you owe it to yourself to get a card capable of running max settings at your native resolution. The 4890 purrs along great in everything I play at max settings (full AA and AF). Only Crysis and Stalker Clear Sky give me trouble with full AA, however both games still look great with 0AA (Stalker) or 2xAA (Crysis) with all other settings maxed out.

    Oh, it's also SUPER easy to overclock using the ATI toolset, and you don't have to mess with voltages if you don't want to complicate things. My MSI 4890 is running at 925Mhz Core / 1100Mhz Memory (Default is 850Mhz Core / 950mhz Memory). That will get you a 5 to 10% increase in FPS with minimum fuss, more if you up the voltage and go with higher clocks.

    Bottom line: If you own a 1920x1200 monitor, get a card that will run your games in full detail at that resolution. Don't wait for DX11, just upgrade in 1 year once all the bugs have been worked out and the prices are lower.
    Reply
  • Jackattak - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    I just bought an XFX nVidia GTX275 on Newegg last week for just over $200 after $30 mail-in rebate ($235 paid up-front). I was surprised not to see the GTX275 on your list there, actually, as that to me is the single-best performance-for-price card out there right now.

    Being that I upgraded from an XFX 8800GT 512MB (which I purchased 2 years ago at ~$200, which is my standard GPU upgrade procedure), the performance jump is obvious and wonderful.
    Reply
  • bill3 - Thursday, June 25, 2009 - link

    How is the 275 the best deal when the 4890 is as fast or faster and selling for 160-170 after rebates all over the place?

    Heck, it seems like in newer benchmarks, the 4890 is beating the 285 let alone the 275.

    Hardocp just put up a brand new Powercolor 4890 review for example, and the 4890 beat the 275 in every game tested I believe. Although usually by slim margins to be sure.

    It especially seems true in newer games like Ghostbusters and Armed Assualt 2. I suspect because of it's superior shader power (evidenced by the fact it dominates benchmarks that measure shaders like furmark) the 4890 might be THE fastest card going forward. The one site I've seen with ARMA2 benches, 4890 beats all the other cards including the 285.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - link

    No the powercolor 4890 1gig at hardocp did NOT beat the GTX275 in every game, NOT EVEN CLOSE.
    http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTY2MSw1LC...">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTY2MSw1LC...
    --
    In the very first test @ highest 2560 rezz - the GTX295 won with the highest lowend franerate, beating the 4890.
    When far cry hit at 1920X - the GTX275 pulled far ahead.
    If you're running @ 2560X1600 and enjoy 12fps minimums, go for it.
    I rather doubt yer running @ 2560x1600.
    --
    See that's the thing, there's so much hype, I check what you said, and see it's all emotional drama, and doesn't match the FACTS - those facts presented at the site you claimed you saw.
    If your brain is already hyped for ati, your conclusion doesn't bear fruit.
    Reply
  • gossmann1 - Friday, July 03, 2009 - link

    Um...where the hell did you get that info. Sorry buddy but I don't care what article you read I have a computer I just built for a friend that has 2 ATI 4890's running cross-fire and compared it to my system with 2 GTX285's in SLI and it kicked there ass. Same processor, Core i7 920 etc. Real world vs. fantasy land. Get REAL!! Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    It's red fanboy central here buddy.
    Even a $480 ati 4870x2 is listed with 2 gtx275's NOT listed.
    There's a hundred points of bias in his little chart.
    One could write a book on it - it's always like that here for some time.
    The story goes like this ( and I DO mean STORY): " we the red rooster rooters hate Nvidia because they had the best card for like eva'.. and we had to pay for it and nvidia made a profit instead of billions in losses like ati, because crappy ati fell off the fps card wagon facedown drunk and stupid for so long Nvidia just 'scapled us' to death, and we're still big fat crybabies over it ! Three cheers for the loser ati who sobered up, now kick nvidia in the crotch they deserve it! "
    Seriously they ALL have a huge sheeple spam generated little raging hatred inside - for nvidia. First they accuse me, then their fanboy lips start flapping like mad, and they dump it off their pent up chests.
    That's what happens over and over again. After I point it out they come back later pretending they're fair, like joeyredfps.
    Really, it's so pathetic.
    Just tell the truth I say, for pete sakes.
    It was amazing when the GTX275 came out with the new high res driver that beat ati's top dog in 2650 then the roosters here switched 180 degrees and suddenly the high res no longer mattered - and they redeclared ati the winner for taking some lower res spots. Six months or more before that only 2560 ruled for declaring the winner.
    Stuff like that is CONSTANT here. The red deranged base is huge - it's been a long mkultra mind trip for them.
    Not ONE, not a one of them will explain the missing 9600GT, that spanks that 4670 and I already quoted the prices at the egg.
    You didn't the GTX270 because it ain't a red rooster card, dude. That's the bottom line.
    Reply
  • GeorgeH - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Reading between the lines, it looks like you had to struggle and equivocate to really recommend any NVIDIA products at all.

    This mirrors my own experiences of late, and makes me wonder what NVIDIA is planning? Any thoughts or rumors? Beyond the GTS250 rebrand they don't appear to have done much of anything in the <=$200 region for way too long.
    Reply
  • loomis2 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Anandtech, GET OUT OF MY HEAD! I was literally seconds away from hitting Purchase on a video card on Newegg when I decided to check your site one last time, and found THIS! Actually, you can stay in my head as long as you like. These guides are a lifesaver! Reply
  • gigahertz20 - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    The 4890 seems like the best card for your money, if I went high end I would get two 4890's and put them in crossfire, which would be about the same price as a 4870 X2 but faster.


    I would really like to hear more from Nvidia and AMD when their new GPU's are coming out, I think anybody looking for a new video card that doesn't need one right away should just wait until the end of Q3, I would think by then we should see benchmarks of the next generation. Very curious to see just how much faster they are going to be, a big bump or just a few percentage points faster.
    Reply
  • alkalinetaupehat - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    Definitely have to agree, since in the past two weeks I've bought three XFX 4850 1GB for $120 every time. Trying to stay with XFX as they have great support and warranty, and I've owned cards from them in the past as well. Since I've enjoyed my GTX285 so much I try to find a competitive price from an Nvidia part, but just can't. When a 1GB 4870 from XFX was $135 w/o MIR a couple days ago, man that was cool to see. Here's to a wonderful buyer's market! Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Sunday, June 21, 2009 - link

    So they include the red rooster ATI cards, 4670, the 4830, and the 4850, and leave out ALL NVIDIA 9800 series, and the 9600 series.
    LOL - THE BIAS HERE IS AMAZING.
    ---
    I'm certain the fools writing the review told themselves " we won't include the problematic 4770 from ATI with all it's issues, and then we can claim to have played fair, and leave out the NVIDIA 9800GTX, 9800GT, 9600GT - etc.
    --
    Anandtech is SICKENING with it blatant, ireepressable bias.
    Reply
  • Denithor - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Oh, did the fanboi get his panties in a wad? Take a midol and come back when you're in a less cranky mood. Or don't, we won't miss your bleating.

    ATi certainly rules the perf/$ charts for gaming right now.

    Unfortunately, for my needs - F@H crunching - nVidia still has a lock on the ppd crown. By nearly a 2:1 ratio. So even with cards that are overpriced 10-20% I still get better performance/$ from nV GPUs.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    Did you address the bias I pointed out, or did you just whine ?
    Oh, you just whined, then played your you're not biased crap show.
    Good, glad to hear you're not a red rooster, not but out, unless you have a counter to the blazing, glaring bias this site can't shake - Derek specifically.
    Reply
  • erple2 - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Their "bias" is based off the performance characteristics in their review. At each price point, you look at the cards that you can get for that price, then the performance that each of those cards gets you. If it happens to be ATI that wins in the performance per pricepoint, well, that's what you have to report on.

    After a quick trip to newegg and using their price discriminator (really just pick video cards in a particular price bracket), it's pretty clear that in the brackets Anandtech chose, ATI really does have the better cards. If you look at the reviews that Anandtech has done with the GTS 250, you'll see that it competes relatively on par with the 4850 in performance. Since the 4850 is cheaper, and happens to come in at a cheaper price than the GTS 250 (aka 9800 GTX+), then what was the problem exactly?

    You can make the same arguments at each price point, too.

    Just because ATI makes the better cards at a particular price point doesn't mean that anandtech needs to pander to NVidia.

    Anandtech is basing their decisions on the cost of the cards first, then within a particular band, the performance of the cards within that band, based on anandtech's performance numbers.
    Based on previous reviews of the GTS 250
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    That's why he left out the 9600GT, 75, 77, 79, 69 dollars, in the sub $100 that beats the 4670 in everything ?
    Yeah whatever.
    It's red bias period, all the way. Prick for a few dollars even when it's beat, stretch a tie or a loss to a win only on 512 4850 models, whatever.
    Same convenient crap, and calling lack of cuda, PhySx, game profiles, forced aa af, ambient occlusion, forced sli for games, etc, and claiming that's a zero because it HIS OPINION --
    No, it's been all too clear for all too long, and if you're even remotely honest you already know it.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Its now known as GTS250 in case you have not heard.... no one in their sane unbias mind would be getting that.... Its 3 year old tech....

    GTX260 is the minimum i would go for... I would rather get a 4850 at $90 bucks over NVIDIA 9800GTX, 9800GT, 9600GT....etc..etc...

    You could do Nvidia a favour by buying those cards.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    PS GTX9800+ is still selling at the egg.
    So is 9800GT
    So is 8800GT at Tiger. (84 bucks)
    Look, the 4770 is not available - like almost anywhere is it ? Maybe just 1 brand somewhere ?
    I can see ati for penny pinching can't even buy a pizza people. Ok, so 10 bucks is the world to some. Sorry for your troubles.
    I guess taking advantage of ati's three billion dollar losses - that it seems my taxes will soon have to pay for - well that's ok - when someone can't pay enough for a card to keep the core producer SOLVENT.
    That's a SHAME.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    You are a party crusher at a red rooster victory party. I have a 8800GT which is upgraded to 4870 512Mb... I am happy with my upgrade why tell people otherwise.

    Besides if you are happy with you whatever Nvidia card, stick to that!! Every one that visit AnandTech has their own opinion of which graphic card is good!!

    Go market Nvidia to whoever that cares..... I am getting my money worth here, this round... Next round maybe Nvidia i don't know. And they better have full dx11 support and much faster or cheaper for me to switch.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 - link

    I don;t care about your opinion or anyone else's opinion. Opinions are fine, it's the bias and the lies that are not.
    How THICK can you be to not understand that ?
    Grow up.
    Reply
  • joeysfb - Friday, June 26, 2009 - link

    You don't care and yet to spent countless hours arguing that Nvidia has a better G80 aka G92 aka GTS card. While most of us like myself have already cross over from green to red and never looked back!!! The market share of gpu landscape has shifted. Nvidia still whole the major discrete video card market but ATI is the better and cheaper choice NOW!! Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Dude, GTX9800+ still beats the 4850, the 4830, the 4770, so your idea of "old tech" is just OLD CRUD in your brain.
    ---
    Yes, it's OBVIOUS you'd rather get a red rooster card, obvious by your reply.
    Reply
  • camylarde - Monday, June 22, 2009 - link

    Lord Raiden likes this ///thumbs up/// Oops, this is not facebook. Reply
  • The0ne - Friday, June 19, 2009 - link

    I just purchased the xfx 4870 1gig for $140 shipped from the hot deals section. It was $10 cheaper but the first deal had expired. I had wanted to grab the 4890 but could not justify the extra $50 for the small performance gain. 4870 will hold me out until the next round of cards come out and stabilize a bit :) But $140 shipped is cheap imo :D Reply

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