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  • HYPhoenix - Saturday, September 26, 2009 - link

    is it possible for someone with a mid level knowledge of hardware to switch the power connector on the console to make it look like jasper?

    The question is just out of pure curiosity.
    Reply
  • abul3ass - Monday, June 29, 2009 - link

    My xbox360 has a Zephyr chip and uses 16,5A current rating.. I was wondering if i could put this xbox's CD drive into my new xbox that contains the Falcon chip with a 14,2A current?

    Thanks in advance.
    Reply
  • Sasparilla - Monday, November 26, 2012 - link

    It depends if you can even use that drive (it has to be the exact same kind and Microsoft used several different kinds throughout production of the Zephyr / Falcon / Jasper machines) and then on top of that Microsoft tied each individual drive via its ROM to each individual xBox (why did they have to make it so hard to keep your machine if your drive failed?) - so if you have the exact same drive type and you have to be able to switch the ROM (a couple of drives this is just unplugging and replugging cables, other drive types you literally have to flash the drive with a copy of the ROM from the original) then you can. Reply
  • chashint - Saturday, June 06, 2009 - link

    I know this is an old article but I am really surprised that the author chose not to do any research into the manufacturing processes of lead free solder and instead chose to generate and perpetuate urban legends in regards to it.

    Most of the comments that have been made about the solder, and the design process also illustrate a complete lack of knowledge about the subject matter. Ball grid array packages have been very common for years and the cirduit cards they are soldered to are very well characterized and understood by the circuit designers. To suggest otherwise is a real stretch.

    There is only one significant issue that plagues the lead free solder process and it is a worldwide industry issue.
    It is called "tin whiskers" which are strands of crystalized tin that grow out of the lead free solder. These whiskers can grow out of the solder connections and create shorts with adjacent conductors.

    Since consumer electronics are now considered disposable not many manufacturers worry a whole lot about this, however it is a huge reliability issue with electronics that are used for aircraft, ships, television stations, power plants ... another words for anything that is expected to last for a long time.

    Some of you have speculated about the glue under one of the components, if this component is a BGA package I will speculate that the adhesive may be there in an attempt to stop tin whiskers from shorting to the adjacent solder joints.
    Reply
  • theolar - Thursday, May 14, 2009 - link

    I've just purchased on of these for my grandsons. I have not received it yet, but I do have the Model # 52T-00141. Can I tell if its a Jasper by that number? If it isn't, I'd like to return it without even opening it. Reply
  • rfast10 - Sunday, March 22, 2009 - link

    So i bought a360 Elite July 25/08. Just 2 days ago i got the E74 single red ring and now my elite will not run period, I'm currently waiting to ship it out to get repaired. Now my Elite has a MFD of Jan.19/08 BUT says 16.5a on the 12v rail, THE TWIST is i have a 175w falcon power brick. So indeed my Elite is a Falcon despite the misleading labels on the back of the console. My xbox elite BOX says LOT NO: 0803 TEAM:CSON and it says 47-63Hz, 203W!!!!!!! Definitely misleading give the power brick is a falcon and the connector on the console is a falcon!!!!! Now im not going to wait to send out my console, get it repaired and get it back, im going to buy another one, i would like to get the PRO but after alot of searching i havent read there have been sightings for the JASPER on the PRO 60gig console,,,,so is this true??? i dont want an arcade BUT i want a JASPER...but let it be known to ALLLLLLL ive owned my 360 ELITE for just UNDER 8 MONTHS and got E74, i knew of ALL the problems and BABIED my machine! its definitely the GPU as my HDMI cable is working FINE...and when i smell the machine around the HDMI/AV connectors it smells BURNT, DEFINITELY something overheated and malfunctioned most likely the GPU has been dislogded or damanged and I HOPE when my ELITE gets repair they repair it with the JASPER motherboard...
    Reply
  • Sasparilla - Monday, November 26, 2012 - link

    Sorry to hear your bad luck on this. Microsoft set up an extensive reprocessing process for RROD 360's (presumably they thought this would be cheaper than actually redesigning the console and providing folks with one that doesn't RROD) and it involves taking the old RROD console and sending out one in its place that previously RROD'd but had been made to work again (they're not new).

    They guaranteed to do this for 3 years, if memory serves, obviously the machines folks got in their place would RROD again at a very high rate as nothing was fixed, just made to work again and you got someone else's old RROD'd 360. Folks talked of having 5 or 6 360's that have RROD'd after they send theirs in after their initial RROD because of this.
    Reply
  • blau808 - Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - link

    Does the die shrink mean cooler temps and a less noisy fan? I bought my xbox the day it was released and was surprised how noisy it was. It sounds like a turbine compared to my ps3 or pc. If it sit on the floor next to it, it vibrates the floor. Does Jasper bring a little peace and quiet? Also since it uses less power, is the brick a different size? i.e. not the size of an actual brick? Reply
  • Sasparilla - Monday, November 26, 2012 - link

    For the most part no, because the primary cause of the turbine noise is the fact that the DVD spins at such a high speed (most noise is coming from it) and that is still there no matter what version of the 360 you get. Reply
  • pockett8 - Thursday, February 26, 2009 - link

    it says 12V-12.1A on back of xbox near barcode.
    it doesnt say 0842X for lot but 0849X i think?
    it doesnt say value bundle 2008 E but xbox 360 but something else i think the value bundle 2008 E sticker was for the us market as the uk sticker says UK/EU i think??.
    and it doesnt say XGX-+00019 BUT XGX-+00024 i think not entirely sure..
    but my friends what i want to know is, is this the jasper version of the console?? please help.
    cheers.
    Reply
  • Syphadeus - Sunday, January 04, 2009 - link

    Well, after receiving my 360 back from it's THIRD repair (they sent me an Opus to replace my Xenon) and finding that it kept throwing me DREs at random, I decided to hunt for a Jasper today.

    I bought an Arcade unit from GAME here in the UK. I asked if I could have a look at the box first and they said no, so I told them to security sticker it because it was a "surprise gift". Turned out to be a Falcon (14.2A). So I'll be taking that back tomorrow.

    In the meantime, I went to GameStation and asked and they let me look at the boxes - second one I looked at was a Jasper. It was really easy to see as well, didn't have to move the console, the 12.1A rating was immediately viewable through the cut-out, so I bought it and it works fine. That's another £130 I've thrown at MS - and all because I really can't be bothered to wait another 3 weeks for them to repair my replacement, which is a pretty laughable concept considering I'd had it all of four days.
    Reply
  • Manic Penguin - Thursday, January 01, 2009 - link

    I had the privilege to use an Xbox 360 Pro (60gb version) last weekend at a friends house. He had just bought the box, so naturally i wondered if it had a Jasper board in it. He told me that he wasn't sure, so I checked the back of the system. Sure enough, it had a power rating of 12,1 A. The power supply itself was a Falcon power block, but the power rating and power input jack on the Xbox both matched up to Jasper specs. I would post pics but my sister didn't let me use her camera. I will see if I can get him to send some pics via email. Reply
  • XtraCrispi - Friday, December 19, 2008 - link

    I just bought an Xbox 360 via Dell and when I got it today I was excited to see that the manufacture date and lot numbers corresponded to what I had read for the Jasper. However after finding and reading this article I've come to realize I've got that rare breed you warned about. It's the 1st gen Xbox with HDMI and a manufactured date of 10-23-08. WTF! So mad.

    I might just return the thing because why spend current model prices and take an old model car, right? (No, this Xbox ain't a classic.)

    Good thing I called Dell before I opened it and complained that the packaging was terrible and the Xbox box was damaged. They said I can open it up and try it out and send it back if it's damaged. I might just do it, get a refund and go get a Jasper at a local store.
    Reply
  • HwaZy - Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - link

    Wow! I was told in early Nov. that MS will not issue pre-Jasper in retail channels. They will be offered as repair replacement or refurbished only.

    I am lucky then and just received my Arcade from DELL today. I wasa a bittle concerned because I used discount coupon. Before I opened it, I confirmed it is indeed Jasper: 12.1V and made 10-18-2008 (3 days after the pictured). The lot#, built-in 256MB memory and bundle label and everything described. Now after opened, the 150W PSU and power connector all confirm it is Jasper. It even has one flyer for the New Experience update.

    Great article!
    Reply
  • Stop It - Saturday, December 13, 2008 - link

    Hey there all

    I like the article, it helps those wanting to ID their systems well, except for my 360, which...makes no sense.

    My 360 (Lot 0745, Made Nov 2007), uses a 175Watt PSU and the Falcon PSU input, but indicates that it uses 16,5A for its 12V rail, an indication of a Zephyr?

    Now I WAS 100% sure I had a Falcon, and I'm still pretty sure, but this has confused the hell out of me, surely the Zephyr wouldn't even work with a 175Watt PSU...would it?
    Reply
  • turbobozz - Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - link

    You're not going to have a Zephyr on Falcon current, but you could have a Falcon on Zephyr current.
    Don't sweat it... you were probably right that you have a Falcon.
    Reply
  • daqman - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    I have two words for Microsoft and any other chip maker fo that matter....Gallium Arsenide! Heat would be a non-factor because there is very little resistence with said substance, therefore it would increase speed also. Reply
  • turbobozz - Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - link

    What are you smoking?
    You don't know what you are talking about.
    Using GaAs would make it far, far more expensive.
    And it you're very much misrepresenting the true benefits GaAs has over Si
    (Which aren't generally applicable to the 360.)

    Wikipedia has a decent article on GaAs... look it up.
    Reply
  • araczynski - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    so far my late 2006 xenon has been working flawlessly, i'll keep my fingers crossed that it stays that way. i wonder if anyone has any records as to what ratio of the failed units were xbox live gold members/players :)

    i don't do multiplayer, so perhaps my xbox loves me for not putting it through all the trash talking wannabe kid drivel.

    i can hope can't i?
    Reply
  • Snarks - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    my xbox is 16.5 amp rated but has the 2nd generation console plug...

    ?!?!?!?!?!?!
    Reply
  • araczynski - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    ditto. Reply
  • BeefyJed - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    Had a quick look at mine and it's the same, 16.5A and 2nd gen connector.
    The PSU brick however says 14.2A. Which do I believe?
    Build date is 29/11/2007.
    Reply
  • leonzain - Friday, December 12, 2008 - link

    hi, well, first of all, awesome article, seriously, thanks a lot dude, you really know your stuff and you make it fun to read, at the moment im almost literally dying to get my hands on an xbox, but i made the decision to wait for the jasper, only problem is, i live in mexico, and i want an elite, so i dont know where jaspers are coming to my country, maybe ill have to wait a month or so to get an arcade jasper, but i want the elite, and maybe thats more waiting, i dont know, id like to know whether or not elites have the jasper motherboard already, and i was thinkingm if anyone knows it must be you, have you spotted a jasper elite? do you know anyone who has spotted a jasper elite? please answer, id really like to know, thank you Reply
  • mariush - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    It says in the chart on the left of the Guaranteed word, it should be 12.1A at 5V, not 12V. Reply
  • mariush - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Nevermind, there's a crease in the plastic in the picture, which made me mistake. Sorry. Reply
  • steveyballme - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    These things rock!

    http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com">http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com
    Reply
  • taltamir - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    when comparing the three wattages the author pointed out that going from 155 watt to 101 watt was a 50% decrease, while going from 101 watts to 93 was 8%...

    The 8% figure is close to the truth on sheer luck, but the 50% is retardedly wrong.
    Percent reduced = ((original - new) / original) * 100
    35% = ((155 - 101) / 155) * 100
    Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    woops, good catch :) I've updated the numbers.

    -A
    Reply
  • george1976 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    I feel sorry for the x360 buyers that experienced RROD. I cant picture myself buying a product with such a high rate of failure.....50%???? Damn. Reply
  • TiM3SH1FT - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Anyone knows if the new Jasper is out on other models than the Arcade?

    I'd like to have Jasper but not the arcade pack...

    Also how do I transfer my HDD content to a new HDD?
    Reply
  • 01wolff - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    When you get a Xbox that has a larger hard drive, you can go on the Xbox 360 site under support and request the transfer kit. It is free from microsoft. They messed up and sent me two of them. If you buy just the hard drive, some come with the kit already (like the 120Gb hard drives). If you just change from one 20Gb to another 20 Gb drive, or from a 60 Gb drive to another 60Gb drive.... Microsoft won't do anything. You have to go up in hard drive capacity. Once you have the kit, then you have to go on the 360 site to modify your DRM information also.

    The alternitave is to not get the transfer kit, change your DRM info on the site, and download everything again. I think using the kit is a better option. (did it from my 360 Prem to my 360 Elite)
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    I'm not saying that the failures are made up, but I did want to indicate that I have an original XBox360 Premium and it is still standing up well to the test of time. I have thought about trying to get it real hot and see if it fails just to RMA it and hope for a new one with maybe HDMI and less electricity usage, but I'm pretty satisfied with mine.
    Jason
    Reply
  • 01wolff - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    After reading this I had to check both of my 360's. What I found baffled me. My Elite 360 had the 12v like the Jasper, but the second-generation power plug. Hummmmmmmm. Reply
  • rekcah2000a - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Same here 16.5A on sticker but power supply 175W and Opus/Falcon power connector
    A new strange beats from M$ ?
    Tom from BELGIUM
    Reply
  • bill3 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    The power usage comparisons, and most important the die size comparisons are great stuff for console/GPU tech junkies like myself.

    Although now that I've seen the comments wishing for noise level comparisons, I have to admit that would have made the article complete..
    Reply
  • bill3 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Besides comparing Xenos to X1800, another inaccuracy was referring to the 256MB internal flash as a improvement. All that does is replace the 256 MB external memory card that used to come with Arcade unit. In essence the same memory card comes with the unit as before, it has just now been made internal. If anything this is a downgrade, as the external mem card has the advantage of portability, aka taking your profile and saves to a friends house and so forth.

    I believe MS made the memory internal to prevent it from being separated from the console in anyway (lost, etc) and having consoles not capable of running NXE (NXE requires 128 MB memory I believe, though I'm not sure if thats only for the install?) out there in the wild. That's my theory.
    Reply
  • poohbear - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    BLASPHEMERSS!!!!! you review console stuff on a pc hardware site?!!?!?? how could u
    ?!?!?
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    The subtitle says "your source for hardware analysis and news". As this is hardware, I'd say it fits more than reviews of games... Reply
  • Dinsdale1 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    When sending a Elite on to repair for RROD, do they put in a Japer board? I mean why put in an old board that will cause a new RROD in a year? Anybody? Reply
  • Frallan - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link


    Is it as loud as it was before? That is what has kept me from buying 1 so far.

    /F
    Reply
  • Roy2001 - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Anand, could you put some noise benchmarks? I have 2 original xbox's and they are very noisy. I am thinking to get a 360, but I really hate the noise...

    Thanks,
    Roy
    Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Unfortunately the loudest thing in the 360 is still the DVD drive, I didn't notice a audible difference between the Falcon and the Jasper.

    -A
    Reply
  • gohepcat - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Ohh god yes. Please give some noise comparisons Reply
  • SuckRaven - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    "First let's get the codenames right. The first Xbox 360 was released in 2005 and used a motherboard codenamed Xenon. The Xenon platform featured a 90nm Xenon CPU (clever naming there), a 90nm Xenos GPU and a 90nm eDRAM. Microsoft added HDMI support to Xenon and called it Zephyr, the big three chips were still all 90nm designs."

    Just thought I'd make the observation that Intel's server and workstation CPUs are called Xeon, not Xenon.

    Xenon is the noble gas used in car headlights.

    Anyways...
    Reply
  • James5mith - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    "Just thought I'd make the observation that Intel's server and workstation CPUs are called Xeon, not Xenon.

    Xenon is the noble gas used in car headlights.

    Anyways... "

    You do know that the tri-core CPU within the Xbox360 isn't made by Intel, right?

    It's a PowerPC chip, codenamed Xenon. Thus his comment about Xenon being a clever naming scheme for the entire original platform. (Just name it after the CPU's codename.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360
    Reply
  • js01 - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    It's kind of pathetic the amount of money some of us spend on our pc just to play console ports that run worse then 4 year old hardware. Reply
  • bill3 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    See my post on page 1.

    It isnt an X800, thats an inaccuracy by Anand. It's more of a X1800/1900 class card, just as PS3 uses a 500 mhz 7800/7900GTX.

    I think your point is pretty valid though. PC's today just mostly get console ports that dont take advantage of the superior PC hardware. The only game in the last few years built to take advatage of PC really is Crysis.
    Reply
  • coldpower27 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    I would say Fallout 3 was one of them that got a good PC version. Reply
  • kilkennycat - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Yep, and for the latest classic example, consider the PC port of GTA4. This port hold the all-time (so far) rotten-banana-prize for the worst console to PC port of a major video-game. Besides the DRM and gross game-play/graphics bugs, the game REQUIRES at least 3 CPU-cores for optimum performance. Code obviously ported over from the 3-core Xbox360 version, with zero optimization for a fewer number of far more capable PC CPU cores. The cartoon-type graphics puts little stress on the GPU. Hopefully, Anandtech in one of the occasional PC game-related articles will lacerate Rockstar and Take Two for this lazily-awful port to the PC. Reply
  • seriouscat - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Comon AT! Wheres the temperature benchmarks? This was the single most interesting test I was looking foward to after all these months and what do I read? Nothing! Reply
  • Pirks - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Otherwise he wouldn't write "I'm actually a bit surprised that we haven't seen more focus on delivering incredible visuals on PC games given the existing performance gap" because the answer to that has been printed in media many times, and here it is posted on DailyTech this morning: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13648">http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=13648

    See Anand, it's really easy to make you stop feeling surprised. You won't ever now, will ya? Just remember this P-word, always remember it.
    Reply
  • Gunbuster - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    "Most lead-free replacements for conventional Sn60/Pb40 and Sn63/Pb37 solder have melting points from 5–20 °C higher"

    You need to back up your facts in this one boys.
    Reply
  • Staples - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    I have yet to see someone hook up a Jasper to a current meter to test out how much power the darn thing draws.

    I hope this does cure the RROD because my launch system (Xenon) and the Falcon I bought a year ago both have gone bad. The Falcon used much less power but if the GPU was the real cause of the RROD like many speculate, then hopefully this die shrink takes care of it.

    And for all of those who do not know which version you have, do what I do. I have never once looked into the console with a flashlight. I have a kill a watt meter and by comparing anand's numbers to that of your own will narrow down the generation of Xbox you have.
    Reply
  • ss284 - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Power(W) = current(A) * voltage(V).

    I'm assuming you can do the math. The killawatt is in essence a volt/current meter.
    Reply
  • sprockkets - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Close. Watts is energy. Watts over time is power, or kWh. Reply
  • ahmshaegar - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Wow. Can't believe I just saw someone post that.

    The watt is definitely a unit of power. Power is the rate at which you use energy. 1 W = 1 J/s. So the kWh is actually a unit of energy, since you multiply the watt with the hour (a unit of time), which is very odd* if you think about it (1 W = 1 J/s, so 1 kWh is 1000 Wh, or 1000 (J/s)h.

    Because 1 hour contains 3600 seconds, 1 kWh is 1000 joules per second multiplied by 1 hour multiplied by 3600 seconds per hour (this last term converts the 1 hour to seconds, so I can cancel out the seconds.)

    You then get 1 kWh = 3600000 J, proving that the kWh is indeed a unit of energy.

    *It's one of those odd units if you just think about it, but very useful for the utilities.
    Reply
  • adhoc - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    I don't understand the comment about lead-free solder melting at high temperatures...

    Lead-free solder actually has a HIGHER melting point than leaded solder. Instead of worrying about solder melting at "high temperatures" from chip heat dissipation, I'd be more worried about PCB and component reliabilities due to the initial soldering process. PCB laminates that aren't suited for lead-free/RoHS elevated temperatures can warp and/or delaminate, creating immediate or possibly latent failures.

    Aside from the PCB materials, components need to be characterized for the higher temperatures during the reflow/wave processes. Ceramic capacitors come to mind as a specific issue; the ceramic can crack under high temperatures (especially temperature gradients during hand-soldering), which can eventually create an open circuit, or worse even a short between power planes.

    In the end, I'm just dubious of the explanation of lead-free solder as the failure mode. On the ohter hand, it may very well be related to the required higher temperatures during assembly (and thus bad PCBs and/or component failures).
    Reply
  • The0ne - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Some designers don't account for the higher temperatures when they design PCBs. Actually there's quite alot of them around. That and mixing leaded and lead free parts where SMT has a much harder time processing them. In such case, they end up separating the process to lead, lead-free and sometimes even hand solder because of the particular design. Then you have designs that doesn't take into consideration of the distances between components or more specifically between vias. With very fine pitches this can become a nightmare for SMT. Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    That was one of the original bits of speculation on the RRoD failures, I've pulled it out since I'm not sure exactly what compound MS used. It's clear that MS viewed the connection between the GPU and motherboard as an issue thanks to the glue in the Falcon and later consoles.

    -A
    Reply
  • gohepcat - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Hey Anand,

    I know it's just anecdotal evidence that we can use to claim that the Falcon still had RROD problems, but NeoGaf has been keeping a pretty extensive tally for dead 360s and dead falcons seem to be very rare (at last count they only confirmed 1)


    Do you know people with dead Falcons?
    Reply
  • adhoc - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    I think the glue is probably there to minimize stress fractures between the PCB and BGA chips which bend at different rates from the high-force heatsink. When large (both in area and weight) heatsinks are tightly fastened to PCBs (like many PC motherboards and I think the Xbox360), it causes the PCB to bend. I would suspect the glue is used as a propping mechanism so that when the PCB flexes, the BGA chip does as well starting at the glued edges rather than the solder points of the BGAs. It also might have an effect of "broadening" the flex of the PCB under the BGA so that the surface of the PCB won't be so concave between pins. Reply
  • Staples - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    I really think the whole solder compound rumor is a myth. If it were that simple, then I am sure MS could have saved themselves a ton of money by using a different compound. It may cost a dollar more per system but it would save them 50$ a console since they would not have to replace 50% of them. Sure the solder joints may break but I doubt that it is because of it being made of the wrong material.

    And about the lead free solder, if that is what they are really using (which they should), it is possibly more brittle and could break under stress.
    Reply
  • The0ne - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Typically it's not the compound but more so due to bad soldering/contact. We've recently had similar issues with a few of our PCBs and it had me chasing down the cause down to the compound as well. As it turned out their SMT was fully capable one way or another where we had lifted pins, cold joints, reverse components, etc. These data didn't really showed until we started gathering more and more data to prove it. Reply
  • sprockkets - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Isn't it true now that all solder has to be lead free? Reply
  • UltraWide - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Only if you want to be RoHS compliant. Reply
  • Zorlac - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    I think you meant "RRoD Compliant" ;) Reply
  • sprockkets - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    But now you cannot sell anything that is not RoHS compliant in the EU. Reply
  • sprockkets - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    OK, AMD's presentation explained it. Reply
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    In the US we would say the number 12.1 as "Twelve point one". In places where comma and period usage are switched, how would 12,1 be spoken? Reply
  • Spoelie - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    12,1
    "twaalf komma een"
    just as you say "point", we say "comma"
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    Interesting, thanks! Reply
  • Spivonious - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    Not European, but I believe it's "12 mark 1" or still "12 point 1" (i.e. in German it's 12 punkt 1, which translates to 12 point 1". Reply
  • geogaddi - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    No - Krauts write "12,1" and say "zwoelf komma eins".

    Now comes the time to dance. Dieter, touch my monkey...
    Reply
  • dasyentist - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    ''The Xbox 360 had a bit more graphics power than a Radeon X800 XT''

    Maybe i'm wrong but from the spec ive read it look more like the core of a x1800/x1900...
    Reply
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  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - link

    The Xenos GPU is somewhere in between X800 and X1800. It has more in the way of X1800 hardware, but performance is a lot more like X800 I believe. Neither the Xbox 360 nor the PS3 launched with graphics performance that could match - let alone surpass - that of the then-current top PC GPUs (i.e. X1800 and 7800 GTX). But, there is something to be said for having a static hardware to target when making games. Reply
  • george12 - Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - link

    http://www.blueunplugged.com/c.aspx?c=53853">http://www.blueunplugged.com/c.aspx?c=53853
    http://www.blueunplugged.com/c.aspx?c=55661">http://www.blueunplugged.com/c.aspx?c=55661
    Reply
  • bill3 - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    I was going to comment on this glaring innacuracy in the article as well! See I'm not the only one who spotted it.

    Xenos doesnt match well to any specific ATI PC hardware of the time, being custom, but I feel fully confident in declaring it a good deal more powerful, in fact a generation ahead, of X800XT!

    The simplest way to deduce this is to compare to PS3. The RSX in PS3 is simply an 500 mhz 7800GTX with a 128 bit memory bus and a few other minor modifications (such as larger texture caches so it can handle the larger latency from PS3's XDR memory pool). The 128bit bus is not a huge handicap for many reasons. (low 720P rendering resolution, the fact RSX can texture from XDR as well as GDDR for more BW, etc etc).

    Now 360 outputs roughly the same level of graphics as PS3 overall (while a few PS3 exclusives seem to look slightly better, OTOH most multiplatform games look/run better on the 360). So it's a necessity to assume Xenos is at least roughly as powerful as 7800GTX. Does X800XT fit that bill? No. In fact the 7800GTX and it's same base specced but higher clocked brother the 7900GTX, traded blows against the ATI X1800 and X1900 cards of the time. So it's much more reasonable to place the Xenos with the X1800/1900 class ATI cards. I believe tape out times would also support that. I believe Xenos taped out in the same time frame (late 04) as G70/R520.

    You can also derive that Xenox>X800XT from more complex maneuvers such as execution resources (and probably die size as well, though I dont have that info). Xenos has 48 shader ALU's. Comparable to the 7800GTX which has 24 pipes, with 2 alu's each, for 48 (though it would also contain 6-8 vertex shader ALU's). And X800XT would have 16 pipes X2 ALU's =32 (plus 8? vertex shader ALU's). Now there are all sorts of caveats in comparing ALU's across different parts (if anything Xenos is probably a lot more efficient in utilizing it's more plentiful ALU's over X800XT, due to it's unified shading abilities, and it's ALUs can crunch an extra component as well I believe making the difference even greater), but nonetheless it probably tells us something.

    Heck, Xenos even has more raw shader resources than X1800XT. X1800 had only 32 shader ALU's as well, albeit higher clocks. Xenos is probably somewhere between X1800 and X1900 if you ask me, right in that class.

    Another evidence of this is the games, I'm not familiar with Gears of War PC benchmarks, but I bet even at 720P a X800XT would be crushed by the game, let alone Gears 2 (even allowing for the greater optimization in consoles doesnt go far enough to negate this point imo). I also dont believe games that look as great as Rage, Resident Evil 5, etc would run on an X800XT.
    Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, December 11, 2008 - link

    The Xenos GPU should have fallen in between the R420 and R520 in terms of performance, remember that Xenos was ATI's first unified shader architecture GPU so direct comparisons between it and the non-unified ATI architectures of the time aren't exactly the easiest to make.

    We originally proposed that the Xenos GPU would perform similar to a 24-pipe R420, but you're correct in that it should be closer to the X1800 in performance. I will update the article to reflect that its performance falls in between both R420/520 but is closer to the 520.

    Remember that one major advantage Xenos has is its 10MB eDRAM, which definitely helps in the effective bandwidth department - making rendering with AA at 720p much more possible than other high end PC architectures available at the time.

    Even if you make the 7800 GTX comparison, we're still around 4x the speed of that with high end PC graphics today. G80 was 2x G70, and GT200 is 2x G80. By the end of next year we'll hopefully have something that is 2x GT200.

    -A
    Reply
  • john-ZX10R - Tuesday, April 20, 2010 - link

    so my elight got the one red light?? 16v. GPU failure ..i went on a search to the game spots and get me my elight 12 1a unit much quieter and power brick is smaller seems good noticed buy touching the top it was a lot cooler after 10 hrs of games and netflix.but seems like the disc tray is a little sloppy when it ejects and goes back in, but i can live with it its the least of my worries i just don't want to get the red ring again i have had if for 2 days and seems to be running good so far i bought a glass pedestal that keeps it about 4 feet off the ground and allows the needed air flow i used the inter cooler on my old one and never had any issues just loud i didn't put it on my new unit as people seem to think it robs power and makes it run hotter due to power usage?? nyko 3 fan system i used to use the usb ports for charging my wireless mic and cell but not with my new one I'm going to try to keep the power usage to just what the xbox needs only.nothing more well that's my 2 cents..Sarasota Florida.. Reply
  • divinevette - Friday, June 11, 2010 - link

    So after ordering an Elite from Dell, and receiving a Falcon!, I returned it and ordered a bundle from a store that guarantees their Xbox 360 Elites have Jasper http://roycedirect.ecrater.com/p/8345580/jasper-xb...

    Happy Hunting! Oh, and they also threw in an extra controller just because I asked nicely.
    Reply
  • joeymather191272 - Thursday, June 16, 2011 - link

    hi i have a console came with 150watt power supply.
    but the pins on back of xbox360 are not the same it looks very much alike but the jasper one has 2 plastic peices on the top, mine has 2 metal peices. on top and has no internal memory.
    Reply

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