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  • jhh979s - Thursday, November 27, 2008 - link

    I'm using a 4850 1GB and I play on ultra high at 1920x1080 with 4 or 8x AA cant remember which. I've never experienced any slowdown but I'm using DX9. Reply
  • gochichi - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    OK, so the 4870 1GB does a much nicer job than the 4870 512MB right? What about the 1GB variants of the 4850?

    I don't have this game, not sure I really want it for $50.00 (I would buy it at $20.00 for instance). I have a 4850 512MB and am generally amazed by how well it feeds my 1920x1200 monitor.

    Let's not forget that Crysis and Far Cry 2 are interesting benchmarks but they are not actually some of the better games out there (going by the reviews).

    If you haven't been playing Call of Duty 4 because your hardware isn't up to par, a better "$200 question" is how the new Call of Duty runs. COD4 is one of those few upgrade worthy games, I'm pretty sure that Far Cry 2 is not. I technically wouldn't have to upgrade my setup to run it, and I can't even bring myself to pay $50.00 for the game. I'm not sure that many of you out there would want to spend even more than $50 to run this game. Most of us can't be upgrading for any old system hog that is released.

    Of course, if you're shopping for a new video card and one of them comes with a game you're interested in, it's going to sweeten the deal. When I was shopping, I was almost lured in by one that had "The Witcher" included. I knew I wouldn't buy that game separetely but it sounded interesting enough to lure me. It's all about the package and the price. Would I recommend the 4850 based on my experience? Absolutely. But NVIDIA is a great company and has been catching up nicely with driver updates. The only beef I have against NVIDIA is that they've been renaming their old parts with new names and that is absolutely unethical. Heck, Nvidia's naming scheme is so bizzarre that a 8800GT 640mb is considerably worse than a 8800GT 512MB.

    Now, back to my original question... if the 4850 1GB does, in fact, perform substantially better than the 512MB one, I would think it would put it right at the top of the list for this game.
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - link

    Actually, nvidia's naming scheme is so bizarre that while I don't think there was an 8800GT 640, there was an 8800GTS 640 and an 8800GTS 512, and performance order went 8800GTS 640 < 8800GT 512 < 8800GTS 512. How is a customer supposed to make sense of that? Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Friday, November 28, 2008 - link

    Yes, and the 9800GT with the bios updated old core - the 8800GT - or in the case of the Asus Ultimate (now sold out everywhere it seems ) the 8800GTS - then the ddr2 vs ddr3 - not to mention that smae issue with ATI - now ddr2, ddr3, ddr4 - one has to be quite careful in what they finally purchase, huh. LOL
    Then you have the brands issues and the rebates and the OC issues - the ram type on the cards that overclocks better or not ...
    I think NV is still getting some review diss because of their confused naming convention which so many considered trickery or too messy to sort out - or time consuming... so I think there's part of the fan issue opposition.
    Nonetheless, I'm glad I chose what I did based upon price and package and all the research I could muster before purchase - I waited quite a while and luckily those 6 months saw a massive output of new card releases - I could have just as easily went with an ATI release with some great deal on price and a game - I'm sure it was my excellent skills but wouldn't argue much with someone calling it luck. LOL
    I see so often reading all over the net at all the popualr and unpopular places - ATI people chiming in that they don't have a problem... and I can't think of really a single case of an NV fan chiming in, in that fashion - so that tells me one thing....
    No matter how many ATI users have had zero problems their entire lives in any OS with ATI cards including any game ever made or thought of, the very fact they have to constantly tell everyone that means :> THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH ATI.
    I suppose I could be wrong, and instead - every ATI buyer is an absolutely masterous OS and game installer and configurator - and likewise all the uncomplaining NV users are oafs who are so noob skilled they can't properly install an ATI card to save their lives... NAHHHHHH !
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch


    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.

    Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch


    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*

    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
    Reply
  • 7eki - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    Problem with stuttering can be removed by typing for example "gfx_maxfps 30" in console. Usually stuttering appears after loading a game, or when there is someone in a hut near you who you will have to talk to. On Catalyst 8.10 turning off the AA and typing this command fixes the problem. On 8.11 game works perfectly in 1600x1200, ultra detail and 2 times AA (with previously mentioned command). Sometimes when there are lots of things going on FPS drop to min 25, but it's still a great framerate for what you pay for this card and U can C in the game. Firstly I thought that it was something wrong with the vsync or that sort of stuff. It's definately a problem connected with memory buffer. I remember that ATI had similar problems in F.E.A.R. on their x800 series with 256MB but they have fixed it. For me FC2 on 4850 works as good or even better as it does on my friend's 9800GTX. Reply
  • Hawkmoon - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    Any word on what drivers were used for the nVidia cards?
    And what was the system used for these tests?? (memory/cpu/mobo etc)
    Reply
  • Hawkmoon - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    I guess I missed it... or they updated the 2nd page.



    Before we get started, let's take a look at our test setup:

    Platform: ASUS Rampage II Extreme, Core i7-965, 6GB DDR3-1333, Intel SSD
    AMD Driver: Final 8.10 hotfix
    NVIDIA Driver: 180.44
    Reply
  • rocky1234 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    Well as I said in those AMD forums to a few guys there & this was after reading their posts or system configs is that alot of the time a lot of the issues are not from The video card or the drivers but from a badly configered system or a system that is overclcoked to far or even worse spyware or viruses & yes a lot of those system do have a unhandy program like Norton 360 installed on them.

    I run the 4870x2 & have not had any BSOD's related to the video card itself yes I have had a BSOD here & there but it was form overclocking the CPU to far EG: when I tried to push my Intel Quad core to 4.1Ghz which in this case was a issue for the CPU but is happy to run all day at 4.0Ghz but I run it at 3.9GHZ to be safe & have a stable system.

    After having owned a Nvidia gaming card & seeing BSODs pretty much daily & they were related to the Drivers I was more than happy to pawn that card off to another system I own.
    Reply
  • BubbaJudge - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    Since the 8.10 hotfix, many of us running Vista and 4850/4870 in CF cannot run the hotfix or the 8.11s without a BSOD upon reaching the desktop. One card, no problem, two cards, infinite BSOD loops. Never mind it being just a Far Cry problem. We cannot run our machines with current AMD drivers.

    We now are at 5 pages of angry frustrated users over at the AMD forums

    http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=2...">http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview....&thr...

    Was hoping you guys would find this, I think you came very close, and am very happy to see you come down on the absurdity which is now Catalyst.

    I have been running ATI since the 9700 pro, but I've had enough of struggling with ATI multicard graphics solutions(oxymoron).
    Reply
  • Ephebus - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    ATI drivers have always been messy, and not just video card drivers. I was unfortunate enough to purchase a motherboard with an ATI chipset, and installing the latest southbridge and RAID drivers from the Catalyst 8.11 suite (which are available as individual packages for motherboards with ATI chipsets) simply removed the option to uninstall the drivers from XP's control panel and also removed the SATA-AHCI support, so now I have to run my HD's in native IDE mode.

    ATI drivers are so pathetic that you have to install the SATA-AHCI drivers during OS installation and from DISKETTES (I haven't had a diskette drive for years). Most people above the total-mediocre-user-level resort to some registry patch to install AHCI drivers on an already installed OS (or because they don't have a diskette drive), which worked just fine for me, but the latest release messed that up too.

    Worst of all was the response I got from AMD's support, telling me to install the drivers from the motherboard's page (which are nothing but the southbridge drivers from a Catalyst release over 1 year old). Fanboys flame on (I used to be one too, since the K6-2), but this company should recognize their inability to develop drivers for their own products and either let someone else write them or go out of the business.
    Reply
  • Slash3 - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    AHCI mode requires all vendors install AHCI drivers at the time of installation for XP. Intel, ATI, AMD or otherwise. Yes, you can slipstream them into an install CD if you're lucky, but XP by default requires the use of the A: diskette drive for controller drivers (needed to enable AHCI or RAID mode). Vista allows the use of USB devices for drivers, and is preconfigured with more out of the gate. Reply
  • Ephebus - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    You forgot NVIDIA. Installers for their chipset drivers are able to install RAID and AHCI drivers on existing XP installations. My previous motherboard was a Foxconn board based on the nForce 560 SLI and I never needed to touch a diskette to get AHCI installed. Reply
  • Ephebus - Tuesday, November 25, 2008 - link

    Small correction, it was the nForce 570 SLI based Foxconn N570SM2AA-8EKRS2H. AHCI support was integrated in the nForce installation. Never had a board with an Intel chipset, so I'll have to take your word for it (that AHCI drivers have to be installed from diskette during XP installation as with ATI boards). Reply
  • binarydragons - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    I couldn't even estimate how long it takes to do these test and with people like me asking for more must get tiring.

    One configuration I would be intersted in would be SLI mode with one card dedicated to Physics.

    I found your article "NVIDIA Fall Driver Update (rel 180) and Other Treats" very intersting.
    Reply
  • binarydragons - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    After posting the PhysX comment I have been doing some reading.

    I am not sure Nvidia PhysX will make a differnece on Far Cry 2.

    From what I can tell Far Cry 2 uses Havok physx which is cpu based.
    Reply
  • Genx87 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    It would be nice to know the platform's you were using. In the past I had a major stuttering issue with a 6800GT, Nforce 3 chipset drivers, and anything over the 67.xx series drivers. I could either run the 67 series drivers with the Nvidia IDE drivers. Or run the newest version of the graphics drivers with the generic microsoft IDE controller drivers.

    I am wondering if this is something similar?

    Secondly as a new frustrated owner of a 4850. I have since learned to uninstall the control center. What an absolute buggy POS that in my opinion appears to have the sole purpose to cause bsod or other driver related issues.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Saturday, November 29, 2008 - link

    Exactly, but that CCC isn't a problem either - of course.. just ask anyone - it's perfect, I guess we can only conclude it is not an ATI issue - and that leaves, well we won't say who that leaves... (sarcasm!)
    ( noone replied saying that because in the hype world, your comment does not exist - it's easier to pass right over and pretend it is never there - like you know the other driver issues that "never happen" with ATI. ) (dripping, oozing sarcasm)
    I guess if I was an absolute master tech like so many I wouldn't have ATI driver issues... if I could just be like the master geeks I'd be so happy with ATI.
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch


    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.

    Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch


    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*

    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
    Reply
  • KnowmaGPUs - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link


    Boy, this review site is so biased it's not even funny!

    AnandTech definitely puts the 'AT' in 'AT'I...

    "None of the AMD cards are stable running FarCry 2, crossfire is dead....but we still recommend 4870...." LOL!!
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch


    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.

    Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch


    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*

    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
    Reply
  • helldrell666 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    Hey, if you don't own an ATI card then don't talk.I run this game at 1920x1280 res. with all the setts set to ultra high + 8x/16x aa/af and my 4870 1G toxic plays the game pretty well with very good frame rates.

    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Saturday, November 29, 2008 - link

    Well at least we know a Toxic (Sapphire) works, but on what motherboard (and perhaps ram though less needed as a clue) we still don't know.
    I guess after this I'll search your profile for your "rig" - and if that comes up empty I won't buy a 4870 1G Toxic because I don't know what motherboard/chipset the drivers are working on.
    Nvidia says to you "Thanks for all the help".
    Reply
  • JonnyDough - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    "It is worth noting that this is the kind of issue that really damages AMD's credibility with respect to going single card CrossFire on the high end. We absolutely support their strategy, but they have simply got to execute."

    LOL! "Simply got to execute?" You can't even execute properly English!
    Reply
  • JonnyDough - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    "This type of a fumble is simply unacceptable." - the last sentence of that paragraph. ROFL. Reply
  • GTVic - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    You can't complain about debatable ATI driver problems when you have the other graphics company paying money for the developer to fully test and optimize the game against their drivers.

    Also, as a general comment, why is it always the graphics card designer's problem when a game has problems. I don't have to upgrade my printer drivers every time I install a new application that has printing capabilities. There is something off about the PC gaming graphics card and the PC gaming industries.
    Reply
  • Genx87 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    1. There doesnt appear to be anything to debate. They see the problems and continue to see the problems.
    2. The Nvidia program only helps with code optimizations. Provided ATI is staying within DX10 specifications it shouldnt have a problem running the code. In fact in the past ATI cards have run very well and sometimes even beat Nvidia cards in games within this program.
    3. When printer drivers are doing the workload and function of a graphics driver let us know. Until then it is pretty silly to compare a printer driver with a graphics driver.
    Reply
  • sbuckler - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    All I want a game that runs on my graphics card, I don't really care how that was achieved.
    I don't think Nvidia do *pay* the games company to make the game run better. They do however invest time and effort with that company to make the game run well on their cards, which costs Nvidia.
    Ati users shouldn't be complaining about TWIMTBP, they should be asking why Ati aren't doing the same thing because it works.
    Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Friday, November 28, 2008 - link

    Good comment, and corrrect, the problem is of course those without the problem for whatever reason chime in as if it doesn't exist for anyone else.
    Last time I checked the videocards are sold under more than one manufacturer/brand name, and Derek pointed out ATI needs to test under a wider variety of hardware configurations.
    So good job on the printer driver comment, and you hit the nail on the head - for some reason ATI is blwoing their driver releases.
    No doubt it is very complex and difficult to achieve a good driver with stability across many games and platforms, and for whatever reason ATI just can't handle it right now.
    It's too bad people can't admit that.
    I think it would be quite wonderful, considerate, and INTELLIGENT, if the people chiming in that their ATI 4870 or whatever ran fine - that they had the sense - especially here- to post the brand and the rest of their setup so others looking to buy and looking at this review and having or not having problems can make a logical, reasonable, helpful analysis - and choose the right brand or combo setup.
    Sad, though, I haven't seen that - just a sort of dissing (Mine works fine! What the xxx xxx xx xx )- that isn't helpful at all - and if ATI techs are reading, they get no clue from all of it either - what brand and board and setup is doing what well.
    It's not very bright, it's quite selfish.
    Oh well, the worst of it is - it will help things to stay in a bad way for too many ATI users - and then without some miracles from the driver dev team - rinse and repeat is coming along - over and over again.
    Reply
  • atakiii - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    I'm not entirely sure whether Mr. Wilson fully understands the AMD/ATI driver release cycle.

    "Maintaining a monthly driver release schedule is detrimental to AMD's ability to release quality drivers. This is not the first or only issue we've seen that could have been solved (or at least noticed) by expanded testing that isn't possible with such tight release deadlines."

    This passage implies that all the development and testing for a particular release occurs in the month prior to release. This is highly unlikely, and this (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&...">http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&... article from Phoronix shows that each driver is in development and testing for about 11 weeks.

    Obviously, hotfixes won't follow this release cycle and newer games won't be properly optimised until the driver release with a development phase corresponding to the game's release.
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    the issue is overlapping development cycles for drivers. once features for a WHQL driver have been frozen, non-critical changes can't be made. This means that once one month's catalyst ships, it is not likely that any bugs that were found at the time of the release of the driver will make it in to the next months driver. This means it'll be at least two months before a fix is seen.

    i don't see how this disagrees with either what i said or what you said.
    Reply
  • MichaelD - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    I'm curious about two things. Why wasn't the 4870X2 included in the test? With GTX280 SLI tested, an X2 would've been a good inclusion due to both price and performance. Also, why is it stated that "Crossfire doesn't work" when it works just fine on my X2.

    Before AMD released it's latest "FarCry2 Patch" (newer driver) there were XFire issues with the X2 and some games like FC2 and Stalker CS, but those have been fixed.
    Reply
  • smokenjoe - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    I never had any problems with my x2 unless it was in windowed mode or it had wait for V sink on. Then there were massive slowdowns. In regular play my card had very consistant frame rates with around 2 hrs play. I did not use the benchmark. FC2 is not the only game with this problem. I know a lot of reviewers like to have the game in window mode to multi task wile benchmarking and Vsink on for pics but it doesnt reflect real world game play with any kind of crosfire set up.

    Unfortunatly I dont know the easy way of getting out of windowd mode I did not see it in the options so I had to edit the config file. To make more annoying the game reset to windowd mode after driver updates.

    The game looks good to me maxed out but I havent had time to play it with other games first on the list.

    Reply
  • rocky1234 - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    No had to comment on that as well...No taking longer for driver releases is not the answer because when I had a Nvidia card if there was a bug or something did not work you were pretty much sol until nvidia released their 8 month old driver to you & you had to hope that it would fix your problem or their bug if it didn't you were hooped until the next release or had to rely on leaked beta drivers. I was glad to get rid of that headache & have not looked back since I got my AMD/ATI card yes there have been issues but most if not all have been worked out & it has been done so in 3 months not 8 months. This is a new game & yes there will be problems with it & I personally have not had any issues with my 4870x2 2GB so far with this game it runs fast & looks good & yes there are pauses for maybe half a second once & a while but it only happens when the HDD reads & while driving so to those that complain about this get a faster drive or please stop whining...enough said. No need to comment on this to me as I don't care & have better things to do like go & play farcry 2 or Grid. Reply
  • rocky1234 - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    Well personally I have had no issues with this game & it is maxed out & no stuttering to be found there may be a very brief pause once & a while but it happens whenever the HDD is reading & I am driving something so this clearly is not the fault of the Graphics card.

    I have found no problems with this game & the Radeon drivers do far even before & switched to the hotfix drivers. I did find that the game does run a lot better from Windows Vista than it did with my Windows XP install & DX10 of coarse. I am glad that AMD took the time to make hot fixes for this game it shows that they are trying to make their cards run properly with this game. With Nvidia if it is not time for a driver release you unlucky souls would have to wait 6 to 8 months for a driver fix or have to depend on a leaked beta driver to fix the problem so to Anandtech take it easy on AMD at least they did something about it & released a hot fix.

    I run most every game at 1080p on my HDTV & I found that crysis is a far more unstable game & just poorly optimized for any platform no matter how much power you give it. This is not AMD's or nvidia's fault this is the fault of the dev. Yes crysis does look a little better here & there but farcry 2 is very close & it just runs fast & smooth.
    Reply
  • PrinceGaz - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    It's funny how soon older cards are forgotten here now. I've got one of those ancient relics, a G80 based 640MB 8800GTS, but like all cards of its generation, it was ommitted from the review. I suppose I can guesstimate that it will be around or just under the performance level of the 9600GT as they have a very similar architecture, but GeForce 6/7 users are totally left out by this review.

    In the current economic climate, it is unlikely everyone will be replacing their graphics card every year (or even every two years), so testing with some older generation cards, at lower detail settings of course, would be a good idea.
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    This review already contains data for 16 configurations, and they probably tested other configurations as well due to the Crossfire issues. If you are going to start throwing in every other reasonable configuration from the past few years and both companies, you would easily top 25-30 configurations, and the time required would be insane. Reply
  • daniyarm - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    I completely agree with you. I bought 8800gt when it came out and bought another one 3 months ago for SLI. 8800GT SLI is by no means a low end graphics solution, it's on par with current single card GPUs. This is the problem with most review sites, they show benchies for new hardware to get you to upgrade because it pleases sponsors. They forget that unlike them, we pay for our hardware and can't afford to buy a new high end GPU every 6 months. Reply
  • Hawkmoon - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Can anyone tell me what CPU was used with these videocards for these tests?

    Thanks
    Reply
  • Hawkmoon - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Hmmm, maybe I missed it... but can anyone tell me also what drivers they used for the Nvidia videocards?

    Thanks
    Reply
  • Brunnis - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    I just wanted to point out that my HD4870 1GB stutters to the extreme with this game. I'm running an E8400 @ 3.8GHz, 8GB RAM and Vista 64-bit. It's however worth pointing out that there is no stuttering in DX9, only DX10. I've tried Cats 8.10, the second hotfix and now Cats 8.11. All have exactly the same problem, with horrible stuttering in DX10. The graphs from the benchmark tool clearly illustrate the issue with frequent spikes in them.

    I also have a friend with a HD4870 1GB and he has experienced the exact same problems. So, the HD4870 is definitely affected by AMD's shoddy drivers.
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    the "stuttering" in the benchmark is part of the benchmark -- it just plays back with stutters in it. it's like that no nv, amd -- all GPUs. the only stuttering that is actually stuttering is what you experience in the game.

    the fps versus frame graphs on my 4870 1GB are smooth, while other cards show spikes.
    Reply
  • Slash3 - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    What resolution and graphic settings are you using? Is there a particular setting or gameplay situation that makes it worse? Reply
  • Giacomo - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    The stuttering issue, with my HIS HD3870 ICEQ3 (running all the latest Catalysts, on Vista x64), shows up at any resolution and quality settings under DX10. The problem shows up when you move around in the scenario: if you just stand, and look around, no stuttering; if you walk, a little stuttering sometimes; if you run, it gets worse; if you drive a car, it's horrible.

    Giacomo
    Reply
  • RagingDragon - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Sounds like it's loading textures (or some other data) from main memory into video memory. For some reason they aren't being preloaded, or are being bumped from video RAM then have to be reloaded. That would also explain why the 512MB have worse issues than 1GB cards. Reply
  • Slash3 - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Would it be possible to make available the custom demo created for this benchmark? A page describing the test setup for the benchmark systems would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Reply
  • Willardjuice - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    I don't have any issues running the game with my R700 using the second 8.10 hotfixes. Reply
  • 4ccmusic - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Did anyone say this was the biggest let down of this year. If I wanted a game like GTA, I would get GTA. Reply
  • toyota - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    I have only played about two hours and I think I have had enough. Its a failure in my book. Reply
  • Amuro - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    I have a GTX 280 tri SLI system, so the game runs very good. However, I stopped playing it after just an hour of play. The graphics are a joke, not even half as good as Crysis and Warhead, and not to mention the entire game world has an ugly orange/yellow mixed with brown tint to it. Reply
  • toyota - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    graphics a joke? on very high or ultra they seem pretty good to me. now the character models look goofy but thats about it for my complaints on the way it looks. now gameplay is a different story. I am growing tired of driving around and running through re spawned enemy checkpoints as if nothing happened just 1 minute earlier. also the AI is stupid as hell. they will shoot at you and then look the other way or even up in the air sometimes. too bad ubi screwed this one up. Reply
  • Griswold - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    He's right though. Its aimed at consoles and thus the textures are "cheap" compared to whats possible. It has this typical console touch as far as visuals go. :( Reply
  • clairvoyant129 - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    Every other sites show GTX 260 Core 216 leading over HD4870 1GB... tells you something about Anand. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Friday, November 28, 2008 - link

    Well someone has to cheer for the stuttering underdawg ... if they all told the truth, amd/ati sales would plummet and competition might then be over.
    I have been amazed myself - the kind of seemingly unavoidable bias that has been everywhere with the 4000 release - I guess they like the color red or hate the leader - LOL - no that wasn't a political comment.
    Maybe it's cheering for the underdog - or blowing off pent up steam on the NV card namings and reissuings of barely changed cards with bit width and shaders mixed about in number.
    Something is definitely causing it - but it is becoming ever clearer that just screaming ATI has a driver update every month won't cut it.
    People cheer for what they like or bought, for whatever reason and with the massively complex benching and work involved it's no surprise one side gets a break the other side doesn't.
    I certainly don't blame the people - gosh having to watch every word is difficult - and then meeting work deadlines - and colluding with the vendors that work with them - there's a lot more to the nightmare than I see when I'm critiquing the benchmark bias....
    ( Doesn't mean the bias isn't there - but then again human nature is complex )
    Anyway, thanks for saying it - what you said about other benchmarks being different.
    ( Yes I saw Derek's explanation below - oh well pressure at the workplace makes things happen - and with everyone so touchy I suppose threats would issue if they didn't claim everything is almost equal. )
    At least some can see clearly what is going on, that makes me happy.
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch


    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.

    Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch


    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*

    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
    Reply
  • Snarks - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    care to back that claim up, or just spew forth more bs? Reply
  • Carfax - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Anandtech is the only website I've seen that shows ATI's part leading Nvidia in Far Cry 2.

    The GTX 260 216 is typically compared to the 4870 1GB in this game..

    Anandtech is the only site I've seen where the 4870 1GB actually beats the GTX 280.

    Also, there is NO MENTION whatsoever as to what Nvidia driver version the author uses in the article near as I can tell.

    The 180xx series brings substantial performance increases for Nvidia cards in this game.
    Reply
  • chizow - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    The Nvidia drivers and results are probably at least 3 weeks old:
    http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=51...">http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=51...

    And the irony of it all, as the reason given as to why the review wasn't published earlier?:

    quote:

    Well, in this case it was the fact that AMD just released a new hotfix driver for Far Cry 2 that fixes a couple rendering issues the original hotfix had. It wouldn't do to publish an article with numbers from an old driver, so here we are retesting things.


    If this FC2 review wasn't really "Shitting on AMD's Drivers Part 3" you might think AT was being biased. Personally I think its just poor testing standards. Derek is clearly being overambitious with his scope and the result is his work is dated before its even published. Derek really takes criticism and suggestions poorly though, so I doubt we'll see any changes. I was glad to see Gary Key include some additional info in his last set of benches, in a motherboard review of all places! http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3459&am...">http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3459&am...
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    My drivers for NVIDIA were 180.44

    This driver featured all the same performance improvements of 180.48, but I had access to it much earlier. The difference is that new features were not yet implemented. I did not use outdated performance data for this. Every other test with Far Cry 2 and NVIDIA would have either used this driver or the 180.43 (well, maybe they would have used 180.47 ... but either way, perf was the same).

    The reason my results show the 4870 1GB pushing past the NV cards is very likely for two reasons: I made my own demo, and I took the highest of 3 runs per test rather than the average. It's easy to see that the custom demo does paint the 4870 1GB in a favorable light, and I explain why I take the highest of 3 runs on the second to last page when I'm talking about the problems we had with AMD drivers.
    Reply
  • chizow - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    I'm not sure how you can claim the drivers and performance is the same when:

    1) You are not using the 180.48 drivers.
    2) Other review sites have shown significant differences in performance between drivers, even earlier 180.43 to 180.48.
    http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canu...">http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/ha...-2-hardw...
    3) Your results are clearly the outlier amongst a sea of review sites that use the actual 180.48 drivers.
    4) Your results are at least 3 weeks old, but you still consider them accurate because you think 180.44 = 180.48 in terms of performance.

    Besides the other glaring problems with this review that you've acknowledged, that's a pretty far leap to make. Instead of just assuming the results between drivers are the same, why not re-run some tests to confirm or deny? As of right now, running these results really undermine you and the sites credibility.
    Reply
  • toyota - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    I have a GTX260 with 180.48 drivers and it stutters in the benchmark and in the game. theres a little hitch even while walking around like in STALKER but not as severe. my 4670 stuttered much less in the benchmark and basically zero in the game so this is NOT an ATI only issue. Reply
  • Goty - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    You really can't blame AMD for having issues with the 8.10 drivers, they probably weren't given access to the game until very shortly before it was released (if at all) as a result of it being a part of the TWIMTBP program. If you consider the fact that work on the 8.11s probably began sometime a month or so before, too, there's even reason for issues there. Watch the 8.12s come out and AMD jump ahead significantly in performance (not that anyone will care by then, though). Reply
  • Genx87 - Monday, November 24, 2008 - link

    The beta testers for the game manufacturer have access to the cards and drivers. ATI knew about this well before the release of the game. Reply
  • ashegam - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    why is there so little difference between the 192 260 and the 216 260?
    I swear I've seen reviews that put that card a good 10-20% above it's older counterpart.
    Reply
  • PrinceGaz - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    A good 10-20%? I very much doubt that, given that stock original GTX260's and the Core 216 later versions differ only in having 9 instead of 8 shader banks, and the equivalent increase in texture units.

    Under ideal conditions, that would result in a 12.5% performance increase, but in practice is likely to be little more than 5% or so as many other factors affect performance. Anything above 12.5% improvement with a Core 216 would only be possible with a driver tweak which favoured it, or unless the Core 216 was overclocked. An improvement of 5% or so over the original GTX260 is what you should expect.
    Reply
  • CEO Ballmer - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    It does not work on Macs!


    http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com">http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com
    Reply
  • CrystalBay - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    Yeah, I Hate It, Ubisoft should be banned to making chess games for Macs.

    Anyhow Firing Squad backs up Dereks benches , pretty much ...
    Reply
  • chizow - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    Seems to be missing, platform used, drivers used etc. I'm guessing the 180.48s weren't used, as those results seem to be off for NV parts. If they weren't, that distinction should probably be made. Reply
  • phatmhatg - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    nice article. very well supported.

    im still going with the 260 192 though.

    its just about as good as the 4870 1gb. what, im losing fewer than 10fps at 19x12?

    its about 60-75 cheaper. i got my 260 for 214 after rebate. free shipping.

    and heres the funny part - it came with far cry 2. so i save about 50 going with the 260 over the 4870 1gb AND i save another 50 by getting the game with it. thats 100 in savings. again - for about max 10fps less?

    lastly - driver issues. i dont JUST play farcry2. i play other games. just seems - and maybe im wrong and maybe things will change - that nvidia either avoids problems with games and/or fixes them better/more quickly than amd does. i dont want to have to wait or mess with things to get my game working. i want it working when i install it.

    so there are 4 good reasons to go with the 260 - cheaper, get game with card, not much slower at all, and better drivers in other games.
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch



    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.
    Reply
  • JonnyDough - Sunday, November 23, 2008 - link

    You should never buy a card for one game. If you're basing your purchase decision on just Far Cry 2 then you're a fool with more money than brains. Speculate about other games you're going to be playing in the future, and any others you currently own as well. THEN and only then should you be choosing a graphics card to purchase. If you buy the GTX 260 and then it doesn't run new games for the next year, then you essentially wasted your money. This is why it pays to stay well behind the curve. Buy a $100 card and $30 games, instead of a $300 card and $60 games. Reply
  • SiliconDoc - Saturday, November 29, 2008 - link

    i GUESS YOU REPLIED TO HIM BUT DIDN'T READ WHAT HE WROTE jHONNY

    " lastly - driver issues. i dont JUST play farcry2. i play other games. just seems - and maybe im wrong and maybe things will change - that nvidia either avoids problems with games and/or fixes them better/more quickly than amd does. i dont want to have to wait or mess with things to get my game working. i want it working when i install it. "

    I see - " i don't JUST play farcry2" - as well as "avoids problems with games "

    So that would go beyond clearly and into DEFINITELY and beyond that and into ABSOLUTELY indicate he already stated he plays more than "just one game".
    I guess you were agreeing 100% with him ? Well, it wasn't clear but in case you weren't...
    Also, if someone buys a videocard for JUST ONE GAME - because that's al they play - why then they ARE NOT an idiot as you stated - they in fact do it because THEY PLAY JUST ONE GAME.
    So nixay to thatay as well.
    Next time instead of making incorrect rips, just say " you're correct I agree".
    Thanks
    Reply
  • kr7400 - Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - link



    Can you please fucking die? Preferably by getting crushed to death in a garbage compactor, by getting your face cut to ribbons with a pocketknife, your head cracked open with a baseball bat, your stomach sliced open and your entrails spilled out, and your eyeballs ripped out of their sockets. *beep* bitch


    I would love to kick you hard in the face, breaking it. Then I'd cut your stomach open with a chainsaw, exposing your intestines. Then I'd cut your windpipe in two with a boxcutter. Then I'd tie you to the back of a pickup truck, and drag you, until your useless *beep* corpse was torn to a million *beep* useless, bloody, and gory pieces.

    Hopefully you'll get what's coming to you. *beep* bitch


    I really hope that you get curb-stomped. It'd be hilarious to see you begging for help, and then someone stomps on the back of your head, leaving you to die in horrible, agonizing pain. *beep*

    Shut the *beep* up f aggot, before you get your face bashed in and cut to ribbons, and your throat slit.

    You're dead if I ever meet you in real life, f ucker. I'll f ucking kill you.

    I would love to f ucking send your f ucking useless ass to the hospital in intensive care, fighting for your worthless life.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po0j4ONZRGY

    I wish you a truly painful, bloody, gory, and agonizing death, *beep*
    Reply
  • Souka - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    Yeah... newegg.com has the evga part for $220 w/free ship and farcry 2.

    So in 6-9 months, when a new game comes out and you need more GPU horsepower, you can go pickup a 2nd video card for SLI action ...for perhaps $125-150...

    Reply
  • phatmhatg - Friday, November 21, 2008 - link

    maybe a silly question...but will i be able to sli a core 192 with a core 216? my guess is no... Reply
  • SirKronan - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    YES. You will be able to SLI a 192 core with a 216 core. Reply
  • Mr Roboto - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    It's going to utilize only 192 SP's on both cards though. So if you own a 260 192 and plan to SLI two of them it makes no sense to buy a 260 216. Reply
  • SirKronan - Saturday, November 22, 2008 - link

    Why wouldn't you? Unless you're silly and put the new 216 core in the secondary slot ... With the new 216 in primary position, titles that don't scale will see the minimal, but still positive gains of the 216 over the 192, and you're still getting a lot of extra cores for your SLI boost in the titles that do scale:

    http://forums.slizone.com/lofiversion/index.php?t2...">http://forums.slizone.com/lofiversion/index.php?t2...

    I would probably get an original 260 just because of current prices right now, but there's nothing wrong with the 216. nVidia did good on this one.
    Reply

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