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  • koljit singh - Saturday, August 09, 2008 - link

    hi
    i was confused in different manufacturers making same size lcds and which one fit which ones ?

    i would like to import them but the model no are so huge it seems difficult to import all of them
    is there any way to find out which ones fit which ones like compatibility chart would be great help

    thanks

    koljit
    Reply
  • Oscarine - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Just a point of note that probably holds true for all the laptop manufacturers (especially Dell). Although the basic technology process for the displays I'm sure is the same, the quality of the sourced display even in the same model can vary wildly. When purchasing a dell with a WUXGA+ Res screen you could be recieving any number of manufacturers displays, fro Phillips, LG, Samsung, etc, and even among those manufacturers numerous different versions of the same panel. Case in point I owned a Dell 9300, with a samsung wuxga+ screen, it had poor contrast, miserable colors, and horrible light bleeding. Whereas my wife's 9300 had LG unit that had much better contrast, richer but less accurate color, and much less light bleed. All of this within the same model, at the same time period. So just like all the other components from DVD, HDD, even keyboards and whatnot are sourced from multiple manufacturers so are the displays, and some are significantly better than others in performance. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Yeah... which really sucks but unfortunately we can't do much about it other than point out the fact. I will try to determine the panel manufacturers on the various laptops and update the table to reflect this information. Reply
  • lazybum131 - Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - link

    Just a note about the updated table with the panel vendors, most likely the Seiko Epson panel reported for the M1710 is actually a Samsung panel. I just replaced a Samsung panel with a LG-Philips on my Latitude D620 (you may have heard about the screen complaints), where Astra reported the Samsung as a Seiko Epson SEC4457. Reply
  • Wesleyrpg - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    hey there, great and infomative article.

    Any ideas who the manufacturer is of the panels in each laptop? I'm curious about the G2P, and apparently the A8JS has two different manufacturers of the panel used in it depending on the country you are based in.

    I'm using a fujistu lifebook n6220, its got a Samsung 17inch panel, 1440 x 900, and a beautiful display, i wonder if its the same panel as the G2P???
    Reply
  • austonia - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    The quality of the display (viewing angles, brightness, contrast) is very high on my priority list when buying a notebook, yet few of them come with a decent display and few sites/reviewers focus on it. I hope Anandtech will follow up on this idea with a wider range of notebooks, when they can. Reply
  • jmvillafana - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    This is a great topic with too few attention. As IT head for a large corporation I used to have Dell as standard for Laptops I used to be glad with response from the total user experience. When switching some 50 users from ispiron 8600 provided in 2004 to a Latitude D820 in late 2006, we had very bad comments. Better speed, better resolution, but the display brightness and clarity was really difficult in users eyes. When looking around for options of other brands, we found similar trends in other brands. Toshiba´s looked better than Dell´s still were not as good as their own laptops from three years before. It seems that most brands have looked for this area as a cut cutting opportunity. The problem is that we could not get better displays even as options for additional cost. The company that grabs this as a marketing opportunity has a good chance of making good money. Reply
  • figuerc - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Agreed - my old Toshiba (Celeron 400) has a better screen then my newer one (P4 2.8 ghz - not that new). Some of the newer dells and gateways are just terrible on the eyes. Reply
  • Theguynextdoor - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    This little laptop has the Xbrite screen with an LED bulb. Does anyone know if this will be tested anytime soon? Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    If Sony deems to send us one, we will happily test it. We don't have any contacts at Sony right now, unfortunately, so the best we can do is ask and hope for a response. If any of you have an inside track at Sony, tell them to contact me via email. Reply
  • Axbattler - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I am also very interested in this. I know that the Sony screen tend to be a love or hate affair: on one hand they are bright and and clear, but many can't get past the reflection. I'd like to know if there are any monitors that's similar to Sony's minus the refection. Reply
  • figuerc - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    My Thinkpad X60 tablet still comes with an IPS screen and it is the best screen I have ever used period. Reply
  • Pirks - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    yeah, this article is a waste of time considering they have omitted IPS screen notebooks. I saw the title, thought "yess!!" and went to read it, you know I always wanted to see good comparison between IPS and TN notebook displays... and in the first page they write "uh we don't know about any notebook with IPS panel" - WTF?! alright Anand and Co, it was agood job, you barely made it but to make TRYLY high-quality article you really have to include at least one IPS thinkpad. I'll keep waiting for your _proper_ notebook screen comparison article, it's likely you do it first

    after all I haven't seen decent notebook TN panel reviews online before yours, so once you add an IPS notebook - job's done!
    Reply
  • DigitalFreak - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Again Pirks, STFU. Reply
  • Pirks - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    sorry for typos, I pressed post button too quick, should be truly not tryly Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    This is a starting point Pirks, not an end point. I tried to make that clear. All notebooks that we review in the future will include a more in-depth review of the display. As for getting the Lenovo Thinkpad X60 (or something similar if there are other IPS laptops), we're working on it. Unfortunately, previous attempts to contact Lenovo for a review unit have been unsuccessful, so we review what we have. Reply
  • Pirks - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    okay, okay, if this is just the beginning - I'm going to STFU, if only to make DigitalFreak quiet

    waiting for your IPS notebook reviews, and thanks for making this just the beginning - I really like the idea of the article, and IPS panels is the only things that's missing

    I wasn't criticizing the article per se, I only disliked the omission of the IPS panels. sorry for not stating it clearly
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    I knew what you meant, and I was glad to find out that I was wrong and that there were some non-TN panels available in laptops. I'll be curious to see if the IPS models (assuming I can get some sent my way) perform noticeably better. After all, the best of the laptops I've looked at so far still trails behind desktop TN models, most likely due to backlighting and power concerns. It could be that the IPS laptops follow that trend. Reply
  • Pirks - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    hey Jarred, here's another mistake you made in the article: "LED backlighting is one technology that holds a lot of promise, and it has only just begun to show up on desktop LCDs" - now don't you know that Sony has been selling notebooks with LED backlighting for some time already? why have you said that it only appeared on desktop LCD while in fact Sony was making notebooks with LEDs waaay before desktop LCDs with LED appeared? Reply
  • Pirks - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    exactly! this is why I'm waiting for your IPS panel notebooks article veeery impatiently! bring it on! :) Reply
  • Myrandex - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I am not all that opposed to lower resolution screens when it comes to a laptop. Laptop video chipsets are often times slow enough as it is, and when my 7200 G0 64MB (256MB TC) is attempted to be used for gaming, 1280x800 gives a much better experience then some 1980x1600 breatly resolution. Reply
  • MrPickins - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    4 screens, and not a single one a 15" model? How does that constitute a "roundup"?
    This article needs far more models tested to be worthwhile.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    It's a roundup of what we have right now. I have some 15" laptops coming for review, and if this wasn't made clear we will be performing these same tests on all future laptop reviews. This was just a way to jump start things before the laptops we currently have are sent back. Reply
  • MrPickins - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Don't get me wrong, I like the article's intent, and the tests run. I just feel it would have been better to wait and give a large comparison all at one time, rather than piecemeal. Reply
  • EarthsDM - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Great article. If you guys wouldn't mind, could you do these tests to the MacBook and MacBook Pro? In light of this new lawsuit (see below) I'd like to know how good my MacBook Pro's display is, i.e. 6-bit or 8-bit. Thanks!

    http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/05/...">http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.a...it-over-...
    http://www.appledefects.com/?p=282">http://www.appledefects.com/?p=282
    Reply
  • heulenwolf - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Great job on the article. I had no idea the G2P's display was so demonstrably superior to the competition. I'd be interested to see these tests performed with two more variables:
    1) How do screen options within a single laptop model score? For example, if you get a Dell Inspiron with the default screen vs the upsell for the "Ultrasharp" model. Such a comparison could also give you two systems that are alike in every other way so you could discern the impact of the "better" screen on battery life
    2) I always hear about how Macs are better for multimedia applications. Does the colorimeter and software work with Macs, as well? If so, I'd be interested to see whether their color accuracy is truly better than those of competing laptops.
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I'd assume you could test the colorimeter on a Mac running Windows, shouldn't affect the screen quality. Reply
  • bldckstark - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Apparently recent testing on the Mac's have shown that the display performs better under Windows than OSx. This is one of the reasons they are being sued right now for claiming better visual representation than "regular" notebooks, when they appear to be the same as all the rest.

    I don't know anyone who has a Macbook, Pro or not so I have not seen this.

    I have been on the edge of buying a Macbook for some time, but when push came to shove, I bought a Lenovo. It is hard to find someone (now I am sure millions will reply since I said this) that thinks the other manufacturers are even in the same league as IBM was. So far Lenovo has been doing a good job of keeping the Thinkpad up to snuff, so I couldn't reasonably spend my money on something I had never seen before and had no consistency in manufacturing from one model to the other. Besides, there is that keyboard 8^)
    Reply
  • jelifah - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    This article was TREMENDOUSLY helpful. As most laptops are bought online it is impossible to be able to determine what an LCD looks like, short of going to a company's kiosk.

    Please continue to do reviews like this.
    Reply
  • mostlyprudent - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Agreed. It's about time someone included one of the most important part of a laptop in the review process. I also appreciated the comparison to desktop LCDs. I have been sticking with my CRT, in part, because of the stark difference in viewing quality between my laptop and desktop PCs. Reply
  • strikeback03 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    The first page mentions that you don't know of any laptops which use an LCD that isn't a TN panel. The Flexview Thinkpads use IPS panels, and they are nice. Any chance of getting one of those in the comparison? Reply
  • n7 - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    And Macbook Pros use IPS.

    Sadly, i'd say 99% of notebooks have garbage for displays.

    Only good thing to come from notebook displays is glossy finishes, as now that's finally spreading nicely into the desktop segment.
    Reply
  • bldckstark - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Apple is currently being sued for poor display quality. Word is they are using TN panels in both Pro and regular versions. I guess we will find out more soon, since this is another high profile (if unwarranted) case against Apple. Reply
  • n7 - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    They aren't using TNs in the Macbook Pros, at least not all the ones i've seen.

    In the regular Macbooks, yes, they use TNs, like everyone else.
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Personally I hate glossy finishes, thankfully neither my laptop or desktop have one.

    I thought I had read somewhere that some Macbooks used IPS as well. They are certainly popular amongst traveling photographers.
    Reply
  • drwho9437 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    While Flexview is IPS, it is not offered at the moment (CTO though perhaps in prebuilt T60 models still).

    It is unknown if Lenovo will bring it back, but it was one of the few panels out there that had good color by most accounts. There were objective measurements done at the Thinkpads.com forum once upon a time...

    I myself didn't get flexview due to the size and cost. I'm quite happy with my T60, but i a 14" wide or standard IPS display is marketed in a Lenovo package, I will certainly be tempted. I don't think I can go back to 'regular' laptops after using my Thinkpad.
    Reply
  • Pirks - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    ditto here, I saw IPS screen on a Thinkpad and it was gorgeous compared to other shitty apple and dell notebooks I saw. so I was seriously surprised to find out that Anand guys don't know about it. guys, your credibility has plummeted down in my eyes. to not know anything about IPS displays in Thinkpads - what kind of techies are you anyway? sheesh... overclocking, overclocking... blah blah... while not knowing about such an OBVIOUS thing as IPS based Thinkpad... sigh :-( Reply
  • DigitalFreak - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Dude, STFU. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Not everyone knows everything about every computer part. I'm glad someone makes a laptop with a non-TN panel, and I have updated the article text. As it said, we were "as yet unaware" of such laptops, and we are now aware. Hopefully Lenovo will be good enough to get us a unit for testing. The point stands that only one manufacturer so far (I think?) makes such a laptop, no one makes a major point about advertising the laptop panel specs or type, and as far as I can tell it's only in the 12.1" X series. We definitely need more such notebooks. Reply
  • strikeback03 - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    Suppose it might now be available on the X series (I haven't kept up with laptop specs much recently). Previously Flexview was only available in 15" 4:3 ratio panels in SXGA and UXGA resolution, on some T and R series models. Whoever was making the panels might have folded up shop though if a few Thinkpads were the only laptops using that panel. Reply
  • Hulk - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    You guys always find the unexpolored areas to investigate. Great job!

    I have also always wondered why laptop displays have seemingly stalled in comparision to desktops. I would gladly sacrifice a little battery life for a high quality desktop-like display.
    Reply
  • rqle - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Yup. Reviewing display from anandtech is great. Kudos on the viewing angle and response time. uniquely presented. ++ Reply
  • mongo lloyd - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Not really. Behardware has been doing the same thing for quite a while. Reply
  • skyyspam - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I don't know why I haven't seen a laptop LCD comparison yet...but this has been very informative, and I only hope that Anandtech continues to evaluate laptop displays in the future.

    On the subject of laptop displays, how come I can't find a 17" stand-alone LCD panel that does 1920x1200? 24" is great and all, but sheesh--I don't need a screen to be that big. The 17" size is perfect for my eyes' resolving power.
    Reply
  • Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    One aspect that doesn't seem to have been given much discussion is resolution, one thing that irritates me about desktop TFTs is the low resolution compared to laptop monitors. You can have 1920x1200 on a 15.4 inch laptop display but you need to go up to 23 inches on a desktop display to reach that resolution.

    John
    Reply
  • corduroygt - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I believe that display quality goes down as dpi (resolution relative to the screen size) goes up, and that's why the XPS did so poorly while the G2P did well. For example, compare two 15.4" notebooks one with the 1280x800 res and the other with the 1680x1050, and you'd see the difference. Similarly, compare the A8Js with another asus that has a 14.1 screen with 1280x800, and the lower resolution panel will have much better results. It's harder to get light through when you have more transistors for some reason. Also I have an A8Js and it's funny you did not mention the regular sand grain pattern you can see very easily when you have a white background, which irritates me much more than any of the issues in this article. You should definitely research the correlation between dpi and screen performance, and this might also explain why desktop monitors fare way better, and large lcd tv's are the best when it comes to display quality.

    Reply
  • Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Sorry, I didn't realise I had to consult you for my own opinion on TFT monitors.

    I have no need to research this because my choice is high resolution, I have used laptops and desktop TFTs for years - my WUXGA monitors do not suffer from 'grain' and I prefer having the higher resolution to give me more working space. A 1280x800 screen, even if it's the highest quality ever made is still useless to me because there's so little I can fit on screen whereas the 1920x1200 monitors actually let me get on with what I want to do.

    If you don't like that, fair enough but given their existence in the laptop market clearly I'm not on my own in wanting a higher resolution - we should have the choice for our own preferences.

    John
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I agree that it would definitely be nice if people have more choice available -- both in desktops as well as laptops. However, he may be correct that higher DPI LCDs result in lower overall quality in other areas. Unfortunately, since no one manufacturers anything like that for the desktop so far all we have is speculation.

    I personally prefer a slightly lower DPI, but that's mostly because my vision isn't that great. I still use a 30" desktop LCD, because I really like the high resolution, but the 24" LCDs are a bit easier on my eyes. Regardless, we will try to bring up this topic with some of the display manufacturers to get their input.
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - link

    I suppose this is where I interject the fact that high dpi effectively reduces aliasing without the need of graphical tricks (like antialiasing).

    The smaller each pixel, the less we will be able to see the stairstep pattern created by non-horizontal and non-vertical straight lines.

    For those interested in the signal processing theory behind this, more dots per inch (dpi) translates to a higher sample rate in converting the continuous representation of a 3d world into a digital representaion suitable for display. Higher sample rates can more accurately represent higher frequency data -- which in images appears as high contrast edges.

    Currently, aliasing is hidden using good game design techiques (avoid lots of high contrast edges), antialiasing (which increases the sample rate for each pixel and chooses pixel color based on more of the surfaces a single pixel covers), and low pass filtering (blurring the entire image slightly can reduce aliasing, but this is a low quality technique).

    Sufficiently high DPI would eliminate the need for all of these techniques and really increase the quality of graphics on the desktop.

    I would venture to guess that Jarred prefers lower dpi more because of the fact that operating systems interfaces don't currenlty scale well with dpi. High resolution shouldn't make things smaller, it should make things more detailed -- and it is the operating systems job to handle this in the majority of cases. modern operating systems fail at this.

    some games do this better -- in games where controls, text, etc. take up the same ammount of screen space no matter what resolution is selected effectively fudge on handling dpi correctly -- that is, things aren't built on a fixed number of pixels but on a fixed portion of the physical display.

    I'm not currently aware of games that do things "right" when it comes to dpi scaling -- that is that contorls and text would have a fixed size no matter what resolution or what size display is being used. This is how things should be done everywhere when it comes to graphical user interfaces. The application should be aware of how many pixels are in one inch, and it should be able to scale on screen controls and text to include more or fewer pixels to provide very consistent UI. This result in something like 18pt font always being 1/4 inch tall no matter what monitor and resolutoin combination are being used. (this also makes zooming in and out take on a meaningful role in the ui).

    Doesn't that just seem like the right way to do it in the first place? Oh well... it's apparenlty too complicated :-/

    But wow, I got off topic a bit ... If user interfaces scaled with dpi, we would all always perfer higher dpi, because higher dpi would directly translate into higher quality images consisting of higher frequency data giving us less aliasing and smoother images without blurring or subsampling.

    high dpi is good -- current operating system, application, and game design are lacking in that they don't always (the exceptions are usually in graphics desing, publishing, and engineering software) make use of dpi data to present a consistent user interface. this turns resolution into "something that makes things smaller" when this is not something it should do at all.

    ok, i'll stop now :-)
    Reply
  • Deusfaux - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    Where does one get this software you guys have used in LCD articles - especially for calibration of colors?

    Or perhaps there is a free equivalent? If the improvement is that substantial going from out-of-the-box to calibrated I'd certainly like to explore doing so on my 3007's
    Reply
  • strikeback03 - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    You actually need hardware as well as software for color calibration - IIRC the Monaco Optix system they use is somewhere in the $300-400 range. There are cheaper alternatives depending on what you need out of the package though. Reply
  • Skobbolop - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    well... it's all about battery life is it not?... personally i think i would go for the low quality lcd with low power consumption, instead of the high quality LCD with high power requirements.... but that's just me :D Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - link

    I don't know... if darker lights save battery life (makes sense), why not just give users the option of dimming the lights when on battery power? The G2P allows a larger range of brightness than the others, though I didn't specifically test battery life at various settings. (3 hours per pass of a battery test can take a long time.) Anyway, I'd personally like to have both high quality and long battery life, with the ability to emphasize one depending on my current use of the laptop. Reply
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