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  • akers - Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - link

    Can anyone shead some light on why Gateway is delaying shipment on the FX530? I have had two delays so far and they cannot promise that it will be deliered by the second delay date. I have heard that there were so Vista problems but it was fixed by now. Reply
  • rfaster - Thursday, March 22, 2007 - link

    My system arrived last week - I ordered it bare bones with the quad core OC'd to the 3.2.

    Specs - I put in a 8800GTX (fac OC'd to 600) - 2nd slot so its only running at 4X ( I did not realize this until I read the great article on this site), I'm running 2 150 10K raptor's, 4GB 667 ram. The best I can do is low 9K's on 3DMark 2006 (Running Vista Ultimate 32bit). I'm seeing easy 1,200's from other folks with similar setups.

    Question - Is the 4X for Slot 2 causing the SLOWNESS? As you pointed out in your article there is NO way to fit the 8800GTX into slot 1 - so I am trying to decide if I should accept the 4X speed on my $699 8800GTXOC - or ship this pc back. I hate to think that my $699 video card is a WASTE on this system due to the 4X?
    Reply
  • rfaster - Thursday, March 22, 2007 - link

    Akers - on the delay I was told they are having a difficult time sourcing the parts needed to build this system. I was a bit put off by the delay on getting this box -- reminded me of my experience with Alienware a few years back ---- Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, March 26, 2007 - link

    Right now, Vista plus 8800 GTX is probably going to be a bit slower than normal. Still, I wouldn't worry too much - you can see that your low 9000s score matches what I got in 3DMark06... which is really just a benchmark and not an actual game. Reply
  • Darkskypoet - Thursday, February 15, 2007 - link

    Now, correct me if I am wrong... But One of the major hinderances to the Quad FX platform (yes I realize 2 dual core chips is power hungry, and inelegant vs a dual die Quad core) is NUMA, rather the lack of proper NUMA support in XP. Looking at the benchmarks (and in fact all Quad FX bench's) sites continue to use XP variants to benchmark the Quad FX systems vs Conroe. XP does not support NUMA, one article in particular I had read mentioned this fact explicitly, and also mentioned that in many cases accessing data in memory in a NUMA dumb system incresed memory latency SUBSTANTIALLY. Consider that in a NUMA dumb O/S, the data required for a process / thread assigned to one chip, could inadvertantly have it's data stored in memory directly linked to the other CPU. This alone hurts benchmarking scores like crazy. In reality a Quad FX setup, if benched with real SMP/ SMC aware software, should eek out a higher per core performance vs Quad Core Conroe, then an X2 vs Dual Core Conroe.
    I saw this because the interconnect superiority (When run with NUMA Aware O/S : Vista / Linux / Etc.) will show itself vs the somewhat limited FSB in use in Quad Core C2D implementations; thus increasing performance per core vs Quad Core C2D.

    I'm not saying we're gonna see the Quad FX Systems out perform C2D systems here. However, given proper NUMA support, the Benches will be a lot closer. Added to that we can use 2xxx series opterons in QUAD FX, and it starts to become a bit of a nicer picture for AMD. The icing on the cake however, would be that one should expect to be able to drop 2 native Quad Cores on to the QUAD FX boards in the near future.

    I believe Nintendo Summed it up for us previously, "Now you're playing with power". If AMD follows this track, then they have a platform out that is fully tested, and stable; running 2 NAtive Quad core chips for the Enthusiast market. As unknown as the Performance of K10 is at this stage, 8 cores with should be mighty interesting. Mighty interesting Indeed.

    Anyone know of a Proper NUMA aware OS used in Quadcore C2D vs Quad FX benchmarking?

    Reply
  • Tuvoc - Saturday, February 17, 2007 - link

    Windows XP x64 edition DOES support NUMA. I have dual Opteron 265s (nicely overclocked from 1.8 to 2.2) and as long as the BIOS is set correctly, then Sandra reports the NUMA status

    I also have an Intel Quad core, and it is blindingly fast....
    Reply
  • roflsaurus - Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - link

    BTX case? Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - link

    BTX is a new form factor that Intel came up with a couple years ago, but the computer parts manufacturers have been relatively slow to adopt it. Basically, it reorganizes the locations of various parts in order to allow for better cooling. Motherboards are also mounted on the offices side of the case, compared to ATX. So where you would open the left side of the case on an ATX system, on the BTX case you would open the right side. If you were to put an ATX motherboard and a BTX motherboard next to each other, on the BTX motherboard everything would appear to be "backwards". Reply
  • Tuvoc - Sunday, February 11, 2007 - link

    They say Gateway had to increase the voltage to make the overclock stable - but by how much ? That would have been intresting to know. Also core temps under full load certainly would have been very interesting Reply
  • JarredWalton - Monday, February 12, 2007 - link

    The motherboard doesn't appear to work all that well at higher FSB speeds, so Gateway's overclocking is accomplished via changing the multiplier. More on this in a moment.

    Voltages are also a bit odd. CPU-Z reports 1.238V, but the BIOS is set to 1.450V. Obviously, there's a pretty big difference, and which is more accurate I cannot say. That illustrates the problem with reporting CPU temperatures as well: the BIOS/motherboard implementation will have an impact, as they can read the thermistor differently. Basically, you only end up comparing the Gateway results to itself, and the important thing is that there were no issues with stability when running overclocked.

    Back to the FSB stuff. The BIOS has support for adjusting FSB speed and RAM speed, but only in large steps. The FSB can be set to 533, 800, 1067, and 1333 - default being 1067 for Core 2. The RAM can be set to DDR2-400, 533, and 667 (or Automatic). Basically, all of these items select a ratio and bus speed. DDR2-533 represents a 1:1 bus/RAM ratio, while 400 is 3:4 and 667 is 5:4. Using those ratios, you can use the FSB-1333 speed to modify the overclocks a bit. I was able to run the bus at 1333 with DDR2-533 and a 10X multiplier to end up at a 3.33 GHz CPU speed (and a real DDR2 speed of 667).

    RAM voltages can be adjusted as well, but only to 1.8, 1.9, 2.1, or 2.2V. I didn't play with these at all. No point in trying to fry Gateway's equipment. I would venture to guess that the CPU could run at 3.3-3.5GHz if you want to push things (3.33 seemed perfectly fine in somewhat limited testing), but again I don't want to push too hard and end up with a dead PC/CPU/RAM/mobo/whatever.

    Hope that helps,
    Jarred Walton
    Editor
    AnandTech.com
    Reply
  • Tuvoc - Saturday, February 17, 2007 - link

    Thanks for that.
    Presumably there was no evidence of throttling while you were testing ? I'm surprised at 1.45v on air at 3.2 that it stayed cool enough. Maybe the BTX case design helps a lot

    I have an Intel Quad Core on an ASUS P5N-E SLI 650i which you've reviewed. With vcore on auto (which os presumably the default 1.35v), CPU-Z reports as low as 1.20v under full load, from a starting value of about 1.28 (vdroop on this board is a little higher than normal as you found in your review). But the difference between the Gateway 1.45v BIOS setting and the CPU-Z figure of 1.238v is extreme...

    Now if only I could get a proper coretemp program to monitor temps under Vista x64..... (I mean proper core temps, not ASUS Probe temps..)
    Reply
  • PrinceGaz - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - link

    I know it is already overclocked to 3.2GHz, but it would have been nice if you reported the core-temperatures and found out how much further it would overclock. Assuming of course the options were available in the BIOS for further overclocking and over-volting. Reply
  • anandtech02148 - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - link

    Lianli Case would be luxury and modular. you can take out parts just so to fit a 8800gtx.

    $4000 to spend, there's a riches that this Gateway can only show with a quad cpu. no fancy rams or mobos.
    Reply
  • Genx87 - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Yup that's a Gateway. I hate their cases btw.

    Reply
  • bamacre - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - link

    Yeah, me too. I think as far as OEM's, Dell has the best cases, hands down. Reply
  • Vidmar - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    One thing I didn't see mentioned in your article is that all Gateways are now being built (assembled) in the USA. Also all Gateway support is located in the USA as well. I think these two points are major pluses for that company. Reply
  • Vidmar - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Ahh now I do see a bit on the support "Finally, Gateway also makes a point that they now offer 100% North America based phone support, so that should generally keep the communication barrier down to a minimum".

    Thanks!
    Reply
  • Crassus - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Revisiting the AMD Quad FX-74 power draw under load:

    When I looked at those numbers, suddenly a scene from one of the Harry Potter movies popped up in my mind. It's Harry waving his wand at something shouting "Ridiculous". In this case, it's a FX-74.

    For the record: I run a X2 and am pretty happy with it, and I'm not going to swap it out anytime soon.
    Reply
  • shortylickens - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    This baby uses my companies memory. Reply
  • Operandi - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    For $4,000 that is pretty blah looking box compared to an XPS or a Lian Li for your custom build.

    Also in regards to the PSU. Delta make very high quality units, much better then 90% of the "enthusiasts" class PSUs at any rate.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    I've used a Dell XPS 410, and other than the top-end 700/710 most of the XPS cases are pretty drab as well. That said, I'm one of those people that prefers function over form, and in some instances PCs that others think look great I find to be downright gaudy. It's all up to personal preference, and the case is generally well designed in my view. Unfortunately, BTX appears to work well for cooling and noise but doesn't do much for compatibility.

    I can't say that I've had any experience with Delta Electronics beyond supporting a ton of PCs and laptops that used that brand (all Dell systems). Many PSUs failed after a few years, but that was in a warehouse environment where dust was a real problem. That they could last even two years is pretty good, and the failure rates were probably only on the order of 5% or so (compared to a motherboard failure rate of at least 15% after three years). However, I don't have any equipment to really test PSUs, so I can't speak from any standpoint other than personal experience when discussing what PSUs are good and which aren't.
    Reply
  • Operandi - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Dust will kill any PSU regardless of quality. Typically speaking Dell builds very reliable machines so the fact that Dell would source Delta is a testimate to their quality. Reply
  • sprockkets - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - link

    They used to use Delta all the time, then, like HP and probably others, went to using HIPRO, and those die all the time. Reply
  • Zebo - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Dust kills, how so? How important is it to keep computer in general clean? Only time I ever clean is when I rebuild them- about every 6 months, not due to any kind of failure though. TIA Reply
  • JarredWalton - Friday, February 09, 2007 - link

    Dust buildup on heatsinks reduces their ability to dissipate heat. I've seen a few GPUs where the fans literally melted because they got too hot! Besides that, dust can gum up the insides of the fans, causing the bearings or whatever else to stop working. I can't even guess at how many fans I've had fail over the years due to dust. So, if you live in a dusty environment, a good cleaning every 3 months probably isn't a bad idea. Most parts will last at least a year, even with neglect, but after that a lot of parts will start to fail if they aren't regularly cleaned. Reply

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