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  • slayerized - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    The last week has seen a sudden drop in memory prices. There are quite a few DDR2 800 modules in the 200 price (-1/+30-40) range on newegg with better timings.
    G.Skill F2-6400CL4D-2GBPK is one of the products out there ($204) with rated timings of 4-4-4-12. I realize anandtech posted another g.skill ddr2 800 review a few days back, but i am pretty sure this is different. I think things are looking better in the memory side of things and prices should stabilize in the affordable range even for enthusiast memories soon (hopefully). Right now the trend is ridiculous.
    Reply
  • Turin39789 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link

    It would have been nice for them to look at several memories, I'm not even sure why they tested this module except the manufacturer is launching the product and needs press. When you are looking for valueram and there are products that are more than 15% cheaper, that's what the budget minded are looking at. I want to know how the $200 sticks work and I want to see them compared with each other, similar to the treatment the high end stuff gets. Reply
  • Turin39789 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link

    It would have been nice for them to look at several memories, I'm not even sure why they tested this module except the manufacturer is launching the product and needs press. When you are looking for valueram and there are products that are more than 15% cheaper, that's what the budget minded are looking at. I want to know how the $200 sticks work and I want to see them compared with each other, similar to the treatment the high end stuff gets. Reply
  • Spacecomber - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Are those the proper results with a mis-labeled heading, or did the wrong results find their way into the article? The results are titled G.Skill F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ. Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Web Editing used an older template, updated the results, but not the title. The results were for the Super Talent DDR2-800. The table is now corrected. Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Web Editing used an older template, updated the results, but not the title. The results were for the Super Talent DDR2-800. The table is now corrected. Reply
  • lopri - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Probably mis-labeled. I'm seeing G-skill, too. Reply
  • ashegam - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    is it me, or do these memory modules look like Walmart branded memory, at first glance? :) Reply
  • n7 - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    There's almost no way this is D9GMH/D9GKX.

    This is likely very good Promos or possibly Elpida.

    Definitely not too bad results considering it's using a crap IC.
    Reply
  • OrSin - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    quote:

    The crude packaging is gone and has been replaced by new designs with strong corporate identity. You can also see the attractive new heat spreaders that coordinate with the package theme. These are all clear indications that Super Talent is serious about competing in the desktop memory market.
    "

    Since when is pretty good? The article is ok, but this line made me laugh. Reminds me of dells new pretty cases and the crap inside. Not all dells are crap but please dont buy a gaming rig from them and expect a true gaming computer.
    Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Pretty is not good by itself, but pretty IS an indication that a company has the resources to compete in the market and that they are proud enough of their product to make it want to stand out.

    Our past experience has been that memory that is amateurishly packaged either improves in "pretty" and stays in the market, or dwindles away in the ugly packaging in which it was introduced.
    Reply
  • peldor - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    If pretty is an indication of something about a company then I'm worried about AnandTech. Those line graphs in this article are hideous, and the front page ain't too hot. At least that expanding Crossfire ad isn't running anymore. Reply
  • brshoemak - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    this is a little OT but I sincerely hope their enthusiast memory is of a higher quality than their standard DDR memory.

    We bought around 30 sticks of Super Talent DDR memory and some Corsair ValueRam from a couple different distributors to build PC's with less than a year ago. So far, 16 (over half) of the Super Talent sticks have gone bad and every time I hear of a new PC problem it's almost always Super Talent memory inside.

    If the enthusiast memory is better quality that's great, but due to my own personal experience I would be wary of their value-segment offerings. JMO
    Reply
  • Xajel - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Users are AMD and Intel, how an Article like this be helpfull if it cover only less than half of the market ?? I hope to see three variants, Intel Core 2, Intel P4 & D and AMD's AM2 platform... Reply
  • Frumious1 - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    In related news, reading comprehension is on the decline so things need to be pointed out with bold flashing text:

    Page 2:
    DDR2 memory performance, in timings and required voltage, are equivalent on the AM2 and Core 2 Duo platforms. This was clearly illustrated in Conroe vs. AM2: Memory & Performance. However, the first generation of AM2 on-processor memory controller does not support any memory timings below 3, or memory speeds above DDR2-800, while both these features are supported on the Intel platform. Timings of 2 are available for RAS-to-CAS and RAS Precharge, and DDR2-1067 is a memory speed option on most Intel motherboards. The lack of extended memory timings and memory speeds makes it more difficult to test the newest high-speed DDR2 memories on an AM2 platform.

    In other words, the memory timings and voltages you can get are the same on both platforms. Performance with AM2 while keeping CPU speed constant is going to improve slightly with more bandwidth just like on Core 2. Most people after high-end memory are going to overclock anyway, at which point it's just a matter of determining how high you can go with the various RAM.

    Core 2 could use a 1:1 ratio and run with this RAM at up to 2000 FSB. Athlon AM2 could do "1:1" at up to DDR2-1000 as well, but there's no way the HyperTransport bus is going to run at 500 MHz base speed. So you can go with the DDR2-800 divider and get up to around 250 MHz HT speed (a 25% overclock), or you could drop to a lower divider like DDR2-667 and probably hit the limits of your motherboard. If not with the 667 setting then certainly with the DDR2-533 setting. Actual memory speeds on AM2 are a bit different then what you select anyway, depending on CPU, as the final RAM speed is derived from the CPU speed an not from the bus speed.

    This is all beside the point, as the main thing to note is that this value RAM will work extremely well for all but the most demanding enthusiasts.
    Reply
  • AndyKH - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    As far as I understand, 533MHz DDR2 will theoretically max out the bandwidth on a 1067MHz FSB, as the memory interface is 128 bits, while FSB is 64 bits. Thus, the only reason that the faster memories perform better is that the timings are relative to the clock speed and will therefore get faster with increased memory clock speed. Is this correct? Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    This is partly true. Memory is Double Data Rate so DDR2-533 is the 1:1 match to a quad-pumped FSB base of 266 (1067). Memory ratios run the memory faster, and it performs better, while the base FSB clock remains the same. However, there is also overclcoking. At 1:1 or any given ratio, you can overclock the bus, which overclocks the memory in lock step at the settings you have chosen.

    With the nVidia 680i, for example, we reached a FSB of 2100 (525 quad-pumped), which is almost a 100% FSB overclock. In that case we had to drop memory ratios so the final memory speed would work with a 2100 bus.

    Memory can be clocked higher by ratios or FSB overclocks, or a combination of both. This gives many options in squeezing the most performance from your memory and system.
    Reply
  • Xajel - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    the point is not about working and overclockablity or not, it's about compatibility as main concern, some mobos like MSI has hard compatibility with some DDR's like OCZ, some reports they can't even hit DDR2-800 speeds so how about overclocking ??

    some mobos, like those from ASUS ( mainly K8N's ) need BIOS update to make it possible to work with OCZ memories in DDR2-800 in Dual channel mode, a lot of users start there rigs with two stick on only one channel then do BIOS flash update and then rearrange the stick to enable DualChannel.

    some guys need to upgrade but they don't know about compatibility issues they may have with such brand new memory !!
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    The major concern with compatibility almost always comes from default required voltages. Since this Super Talent requires 1.8V by default, it should work on any DDR2 platform that recognizes the DDR2-800 speed. I'm sure Wes has played with the RAM on more than one motherboard, so if he hasn't made comments about incompatibilities (and he actually mentions the benefits of the 1.8V requirement) then it's about as "safe" as you can get. Reply
  • Cali3350 - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    When might this be available, and perhaps more inportantly if it already is does anyone know where? I cannot find it anywhere. Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Super Talent has advised:

    "This kit is on sale at ewiz for $241.02. You could point readers to
    http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T800UX2GC5">http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T800UX2GC5&quo...

    The kits will also appear at other resellers in the near future.
    Reply
  • Frumious1 - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Try searching for "T800UX2GC5" and you should find it.

    http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T800UX2GC5">eWiz

    Not in stock anywhere else that I see right now, but Newegg has the T800UX2GC4 at $280 with a $20 mailin rebate, so I bet they'll get the C5 as well, and hopefully closer to $200. In the mean time, try http://froogle.google.com/froogle?hl=en&q=T800...">using a search engine like Froogle/
    Reply
  • Postoasted - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Shouldn't we be suspicious of reviews where the test sample is provided by the product maker? Reply
  • Frumious1 - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Yes, and we should stop reading hardware websites because that's where all their hardware comes from. We should only pay attention to Newegg.com reviews, because all of those people really purchased the products they're reviewing! (/sarcasm)

    I've rarely (if ever) been able to match AnandTech performance results with the same RAM chips they use, but then I rarely have the same CPU and motherboard that they've got either. If they push everything to the same limit, you can at least figure the relative differences are there. Truthfully, I don't think more than a small fraction of people that worry about having the biggest epenis need more than DDR2-800 memory. That will get you just about everywhere you need to go with overclocking (except perhaps with the E6300/E6400 on extreme overclocks), so unless you care about the extra 3% potential performance there's not much reason to buy $500 RAM kits.
    Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Product on AnandTech is not a one-shot deal. If memory or motherboard manufacturers supply hand-picked hardware and users can't duplicate what we find the RMAs go through the roof. This is very expensive for the manufacturer. They quickly learn it is in their best interest to supply a sample with typical performance. The supply issue becomes self-policing.

    As Editors and enthusiasts we are also not idiots. We do buy samples on a regular basis and compare them to what we find with manufacturer samples. If results are out of line we scream loudly - to the manufacturer and in these pages. Accepting samples from manufacturers for review gets you information MUCH faster, but a review at AT is a privilege - not an obligation. Manufacturers who abuse the "typical sample" rule get moved down in queues or out of our review cycle.

    The performance of the Super Talent is nothing spectacular; it is good performance from a fairly rated DDR2-800 memory. There is nothing in our results to raise any concerns. The point of the review was that value DDR2 is almost as good in performance as the best DDR2, and if you are on a tight budget you can save money with value DDR2, within reason, and get more performance by putting the difference in a video card upgrade or a CPU upgrade.

    We have asked Super Talent to provide info on where this memory can be purchased. We will pass that along as soon as we receive an answer.
    Reply
  • lopri - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    What if the manufacturers are big, I mean HUGE, or if they command a monopoly/duo-poly status in the market? Namely, Intel, AMD, NV, ASUS, et al. Do they consider it an honor to be reviewed @AT? I remember Anand's E6600/E6700/X6800 all hitting ~4.0GHz when they debuted. Retail samples still can't achieve such clocks even months after the initial review, let alone at that time they were merely achieving 3.30~3.60GHz. But it'd be hard to ignore Intel's new products, I'd assume? Reply
  • Wesley Fink - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    There is variation in overclocking among Core 2 Duo samples, but almost all of our retail chips - those we bought - will do in the 3.6GHz to 4.0GHz range. My last retail E6800 does 3.6+ at stock voltage and right at 4GHz on good air cooling. The retail runs 2100 FSB while the Intle sample will not do 1MHz over 1800 FSB.

    Intel supplied the pre-launch chips, but we have bought everything since. There is definitely variation, but our retail purchases do not vary significantly from the Intel supplied chips, except in maximum FSB which we commented on in the nVidia 680i launch review.
    Reply
  • Hippiekiller - Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - link

    Poop comes from butts teehee Reply
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