Crowning a new Champ; AMD's Opteron 165

by Tuan Nguyen on 11/5/2005 2:20 PM EST
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  • mlittl3 - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    The only thing I learned by reading these comments are how uninformative some anandtech readers are becoming.

    * didn't know about 1xx 939 opterons (news flash: 1xx opterons are also going to use the M2 socket which is 940 pin, no this is not the same as the current 940 pin and yes this is going to be the same socket for desktop cpus)

    * didn't know how the HT links on opterons work...whoever asked about the opteron being faster because it has 3 HT links over athlon 64s giving 3x bandwidth should be banned from this forum

    * didn't know how much L1 cache AMD cpus have...most likely the dude who read the 256K L1 cache somewhere was not smart enough to realize that this was total L1 cached between two cores (128K cache per core) which means dual-core opterons and dual-core athlon x2s have the exact same L1 cache. Wow 1+1=2.

    Jarrod, Kristopher, Anand, someone please give an opteron refresher course before my brain shrivels up and dies. :) Thanks.
    Reply
  • Madellga - Monday, November 07, 2005 - link

    Thanks Einstein for the clarification.

    Unfortunately I posted my question without checking at AMD. The online store I looked at posted the L1 wrongly, my mistake was not to check it.

    It is good to know that there are perfect human beings walking around us. You don't do mistakes, do you?
    Reply
  • Madellga - Monday, November 07, 2005 - link

    My post refers to mlittl3 , not to Kristopher's. Reply
  • KristopherKubicki - Monday, November 07, 2005 - link

    Hehe OK - where to begin.

    These DENMARK Opterons are pretty much identical to the X2 4200+, but clocked at 1800MHz instead. They are pretty much identical to Toledo. Furthermore, this spin only has a single HT link. They used to put 3 on each Opteron/Athlon64, but only MP Opterons would ever use the additional links, so they are removed. There are some better diagrams of how the HT links work, but I can only find this one right now:

    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...

    This chip is an Athlon 64 X2 3800+, but they call it an Opteron for whatever reason -- probably some marketing that is way over my head.

    Usually the caches are written 128k + 128k or 2x128k, but sometimes not -- again probably some marketing that is even further over my head.
    Reply
  • rgreen83 - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    You guys are using the wrong AMD pricing page, I would kinda expect you guys to be a little more up to date on these things. Heres the right one http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoo...">http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoo... notice pricing effective 10/31 not 9/28 like the one you guys linked to, and true to form it lists the 165 at $278. Reply
  • Madellga - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    Hey, you are all saying that the 165 is based on the Toledo, but I saw somewhere that the 165 has 128Kb L1 cache. The Toledo has 256Kb L1 cache.

    We all know that the 1024Kb L2 cache brings a little advantage (San Diego x Venice), but what about the L1 cache being smaller?

    How important that is? Any benchmarks available?

    I bought yesterday a X2 3800 Manchester (box not yet opened), know I wonder if I should return it and get a 165.

    What is the big advantage of the 165 over the X2 3800? Can it overclock better?

    The way I see now:
    X2 3800 has L1 256Kb L2 512Kb (per core)
    Multiplier 10x

    165 has L1 128Kb 1024KB (per core)
    Multiplier 9x

    Price being similar, I would think the X2 would still be better for most of people (specially without a DFI board).

    What I am missing here?

    Please let me know, I would hate opening the X2 3800 and finding out that the 165 was the beast to get.
    Reply
  • quasarsky - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    are you sure about this??? Reply
  • Live - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    AMD Opteron™
    Product Data Sheet
    64-Kbyte 2-Way Associative ECC-Protected
    L1 Data Cache
    – Two 64-bit operations per cycle, 3-cycle latency
    • 64-Kbyte 2-Way Associative Parity-Protected
    L1 Instruction Cache
    – With advanced branch prediction
    • 1024-Kbyte (1-Mbyte) 16-Way Associative
    ECC-Protected L2 Cache
    – Exclusive cache architecture—storage in addition
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white...">http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content...e/white_...

    AMD Athlon? 64 X2
    Dual-Core
    Product Data Sheet
    64-Kbyte 2-Way Associative ECC-Protected
    L1 Data Caches
    ? Two 64-bit operations per cycle, 3-cycle latency
    ? 64-Kbyte 2-Way Associative Parity-Protected
    L1 Instruction Caches
    ? With advanced branch prediction
    ? 16-Way Associative ECC-Protected
    L2 Caches
    ? Exclusive cache architecture?storage in addition
    to L1 caches
    ? Up to 1 Mbyte per L2 cache
    to L1 caches

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white...">http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content...e/white_...
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    L1 cache sizes for all K8 chips are 128K. From Sempron through Opteron they all have the same L1 and internal structure. Only the number of cores, extension like SSE3, and L2 cache sizes vary. There's a reason L1 cache sizes are smaller than L2 - it is very difficult to get a large cache with a latency as low as L1. (Actually, it's almost impossible.) Reply
  • Pete84 - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    You can use normal memory. It is just like a normal X2, except it is called an Opteron.

    The extra hypertransport links on Opterons are only on the MP variants.
    Reply
  • quasarsky - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    isn't it true athlon 64 chips only use one hypertransport link? opteron's use 3? so this chip would have more bandwidth than a athlon64? Reply
  • Jep4444 - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    depends on which Opteron model, a 1xx series only has one HT link, a 2xx series has two links

    i'm not sure the exact amount of links on an 8xx but it might be 3 HT links
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Sunday, November 06, 2005 - link

    Each link serves a purpose. One link goes to the Northbridge/chipset (always). The second and third links go to additional CPU sockets. Basically, unless you're running a dual or quad socket motherboard, additional HT links won't ever be used. Reply
  • quasarsky - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    what i meant was non ecc memory :-D Reply
  • quasarsky - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    i can use ddr 1 unbuffered memory? low latency stuff too? :-D. Reply
  • johnsonx - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    What's with NewEgg asking $475 for these things? Usually when I bother to check up on NewEgg's pricing, I find I'm wasting my time. About the only time I actually get any better pricing than NewEgg is with a real distributor like Ingram Micro, and even then it's rare to get any meaningful savings... sometimes ZipZoomFly is a little better on a few items as well.

    But $475 vs. $299?
    Reply
  • Anton74 - Thursday, November 10, 2005 - link

    Just to follow up, I noticed today that newegg dropped the price to $289 for the OEM version, and $359 for the retail version. However, they're both out of stock with an ETA of 11/11 (tomorrow as of the date of this post). Reply
  • Anton74 - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    As I recall, newegg was also rather high at first with the X2 3800+, but only for a short while. I suspect this one too will come down sooner rather than later - they can't expect to sell very many with that much of a differential.

    I'll think about putting one on my wishlist until then. :)
    Reply
  • Furen - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    Mwave has it for $305, here's the link:
    http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=...">http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=...
    Reply
  • SynthDude2001 - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    I've wanted one of these things ever since I first heard about it a few months ago. (Well, the lower-end single-core 939 Opterons caught my eye then too, since the 165 was very expensive at the time.)

    With any luck I'll have one of these by the month's end...
    Reply
  • ksherman - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    quote:

    Opteron 165, a dual-core socket 939 processor had indeed started shipping.


    I thought Opterons used 940 pins and also needed fully buffered memory...
    Reply
  • ksherman - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    well, according to Monarch, these things are 939... strange. do they still require the special memory and are their multipliers locked like they X2 couterparts?
    Reply
  • KristopherKubicki - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    Single socket opterons now come in Socket 939. Only the 2xx and 8xx series are Socket 940 these days.

    This chip is basically the "Athlon 64 X2 3600+" part. You can use regular DDR1 memory.

    Kristopher
    Reply
  • Skyhanger - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    More like a X2 3600+ with DOUBLE the cache of a X2 3800+
    Thinks it's closer to a X2 3900+ =)
    Reply
  • ViperV990 - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    3600+ is right if you look at how the other X2's are named (e.g. 4200 vs. 4400 & 4600)
    The 1.8 GHz 512k part would be 3400+.
    Reply
  • phaxmohdem - Saturday, November 05, 2005 - link

    *message to ASUS* FVCK YOU AND YOUR NON SK8N BIOS UPDATING HIPPIES!!! */end message to ASUS*

    On another note, I sure whish I had a nice 939 board right about now for a dual core upgrade path. Perhaps I'll be able to snag one of those sexy ASUS a8n32-SLI boards and one of these babies if the prices come down a tad during the Christmas shopping rush.
    Reply

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