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  • jimmy43 - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link

    Have you guys seen the PS3 Launch list? its HUGE, with lots of sequels albeit, but still much more impressive than the Xbox360. Reply
  • GoatHerderEd - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link

    I wonder what DDR will be link on the PS3 :P Reply
  • glennpratt - Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - link

    DestruyaUR - Please, just about any piece of electrical hardware will be tested to determine a safe operating range.

    ImJacksAmygdala - Don't try to tell me that the 'before' shot is representative of a good deinterlacing job, I'll bet money that is a worst case shot. The quality you get from the faroudja chip of FFDshow has everything to do with quality deinterlacing and nothing to do with upconverting (upconverting to native res is just a necessity for you fixed pixel size users, a good display should do a good job on its own.)
    Reply
  • DestruyaUR - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    I still think the biggest problems with these consoles (both XB360 and PS3) are going to be overheating.

    The MS Dev team called a heatpiped heatsink "watercooling," for God's sake.

    They test these things in 68 degree or lower air-conditioned labs when they SHOULD be testing them in 85-90 degree non air-conditioned dorm room environments.
    Reply
  • ShadowVlican - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    will do the same as #10

    if they remake ff7 for ps3, i'll preorder one right NOW.
    Reply
  • ImJacksAmygdala - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    #65 You might want to look at this guide to see exactly what 480I upscaled to 1080I looks like...

    http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1

    This is what you can do with Theatertek or Zoomplayer using FFDshow, but certain consumer DVD players using the Faroudja chip with proper upscaling can produce the same results. One of the most popular consumer DVD players that fit this criteria can be had for $159.99. If a console that costs $499 and plays games at 720p why can't it also produce similar results?

    If these new consoles can't upscale DVD video to HD resolutions while we wait for Sony and Toshiba to hash out HD dvd video, and they can't surf the web I am not buying.
    Reply
  • glennpratt - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    ImJacksAmygdala - Xbox upscans DVD's at least to 480P. If you have a decent TV, this will look just as good as upscanning to a higher res. Really, P.scan DVD isn't great, just a small stop gap before HD DVD (you can't make something from nothing).

    I'm just hoping MS will be undercutting PS3 in big time in price when PS3 comes out, on account of the lack of BluRay/HDDVD. I really don't care to use my game console as a DVD player, especially if it's Sony's BetaMax 2006, but I will take a pricecut for the loss.
    Reply
  • ImJacksAmygdala - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Did I miss something? Does it play DVD's or not? If it does will it upscale DVD video from 480i to 720p or 1080i? I will be a bit miffed if I spend $400 on a Xbox360 or a PS3 and it can't even upscale DVD resolution while it plays games at 720p. That would just be retarded.

    And what about web access? Can I surf the web from my couch?

    HD Games, upscaled movies, and surfing the web all from my couch. The first company that gets this right has the winning console that should be more popular than TIVO.

    I guess I'll go back to spending money on HTPC parts and fighting compatibility and setup problems.
    Reply
  • slatr - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Neither of them were sucessful in delivering the last round of high end GPUs on time and in anywhere near the volume that these units will demand.
    ******
    Is IBM making both the processor and the GPU for the new consoles? Maybe they can do better than that Taiwanese outfit.. TSMC or whatever
    Reply
  • semo - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    just realised it is no longer needed to fork out £10 for a 8mb of excruciatingly slow memory card just to save your games.

    money grabbing sony even used to ask for £20 for those mem cards when the ps2 first came out and there were no alternatives.

    btw, i'm hearing that the ps3 will cost £200 (about $350) and i think that this can't be right...


    can it?
    Reply
  • Son of a N00b - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    OMG PPL THE ATI GFX CARD IN THE XBOX DOES NOT HAVE 48ACTUAL PIPELINES!!!!!! GET YOUR FING FACTS STRAIGHT AND NOT REPEATING MARKETING BS!!!!

    sorry for the rant, but its annyoing with all these ppl going, oooohh, ahhhhh, and ignoring facts and explanations.....
    Reply
  • DrDisconnect - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Both the X-box and the PS3 are smoke and mirrors until we see whether NVIDA and ATI can delliver their parts. Neither of them were sucessful in delivering the last round of high end GPUs on time and in anywhere near the volume that these units will demand. I fear that only a handful of these units will make it to market when promised. Reply
  • garekinokami - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Hm, you're right Griswold (#53).

    I wish they'd produce numbers that are applicable.

    And I have to agree w/#56, piroroadkill, and 58, fitten -- the console and controller design is just ugly!

    XBOX 360 (I CAN'T BELIEVE IT) looks better albeit a bit like those small desktops that Dell or Compaq sells...Changeable faceplates -- reminds me of getting into my friend's Compaq, to get into it you removed the faceplate and pulled it out...Hah hah
    Reply
  • fitten - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Impressive screenshots... but I also remember impressive screenshots for the PS2 (EmotionEngine) that were higher quality than ever appeared in a game for it.

    Other than that... the box is fugly and it has a freakin round top. I guess they did that on purpose so you can't stack anything on top of it so it must be on the top of any stack (more prominant and "important" spot).
    Reply
  • andrep74 - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    #55 Not a lie. The reason FLOPS was never used before by the GPU makers was that 128-bit float has of only recent become the "standard". Remember the big FX hoopla about 128 bits being the reason it was so slow compared to the 48 bits of the ATI? Back then no one used 128 bit in any games, so the argument was moot.

    Graphics processors do massively parallel 128-bit floating point instructions; they can have perhaps 256 simplified floating point ALUs processing at the same time, hundreds of lines per frame, 50-100 times a second. Or, let's say there are 2,048 FP ALUs, clocked at 500MHz, you get over 1TFLOPS (assuming one simple FLOP/clock cycle).
    Reply
  • piroroadkill - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    The controller for the PlayStation3 looks f ucking awful.

    As for Xbox 360 vs PlayStation3, I know I'll be going for the Xbox 360, and to be honest, they are going to be extremely close in the graphical muscle stakes.

    I even think the Xbox 360 looks better.

    I don't know what Sony have been smoking this time round but they've got the internals pretty solid but their design blows.
    Reply
  • knitecrow - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    lies, damn lies and FLOPS
















    PS3 is quoted as having 2.0Tflops of power, 1.8Tflops comes from the GPU.

    Who the hell uses flops for measuring GPU performance?!?! In all these years have you EVER heard nvidia or ATI throw flops around?
    NO, because they are useless.


    Second, I believe the sony OS3 slides when they say this GPU is 300 Million transistor beast that is twice as powerful as a two 6800Ultra SLI. Does that mean your single 6800ultra is nearly 0.9Gflops

    by extention that would make the X800XT around the same number....
    Reply
  • igloo15 - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Have you seen the pic of the nintendo Revolution. it definitly wins best looking next gen console! Reply
  • Griswold - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    #52

    Well, try to run server applications on a console or games on a server and you'll see how comparable these numbers are.
    Reply
  • garekinokami - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Go to:

    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23285

    Could someone explain that to me? I'm not really a genius at this but the numbers are kinda wacky (for PS3 and XBOX 360); if you check the numbers posted for the IBM P-5 you'll see what I mean...

    "A 64-way IBM eServer p5 595 (1.90GHz) is the best-in-class 64-way RISC SMP HPC result (418 Gigaflop/sec)" -- from the IBM eServer site.

    What I'd like to know is can you compare the three? If yes, why's the server losing out to these consoles (hype = blown-up numbers)? If not, then the inq article is wrong to point that out and so am I.
    Reply
  • Griswold - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Are there ever any new games coming out again? I mean, not "blabla 4" and "gaga 6" or "humbug 7".

    Where is the originality nowadays?
    Reply
  • Lord Banshee - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    impressive even for next year...

    I wonder how many pipelines this GPU has, ATI's X360 has 48 (increase of 3x from the current PC GPU(16))..

    Note to Sony... FIX AA lines.. Seriously if they can output 2x 1080p than i don't see a problem with 4x/8x AA on one 1080p. Give me demos with AA fixed please :)
    Reply
  • RadeonGuy - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    damn it can run unreal engine 3 and comeputers are 2-3 years away from running it Reply
  • fishbits - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Looks impressive. So does the 360. I skipped out on the last round of consoles, PC is my favorite, but may get back in this time. Being able to get a PS3 and pick up any of the old games is very nice, hopefully the 360 is backwards compatible as well.

    Dual monitors for PS3? Panoramic view sounds nice, but give us 2x full screen head-to-head titles. Can't wait to see these units and read the reviews when they actually come out.
    Reply
  • defter - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    "but I still don't see how a 300 million transistor card can do 1.8Tflops of processing"

    1.8Tflops is comnined number for both the CPU and the GPU.

    "1) The cell has a power pc core at 3.2 ghz. But that power point slide from sony says 7 SPE @ 3.2. Does that mean those SPE's are processors as well since they are being clocked. I always thought of them as mini-CPUs."

    SPEs are within Cell. So there is only one chip that acts as a CPU

    Reply
  • araczynski - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    specs my ass, are there any good games for either system? or just more rehashing of all the same sports/fighter/shooters crap? Reply
  • semo - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    impressive...


    hopefully most of the mentioned bits actually make the final cut...

    but it all looks veeeery expensive
    Reply
  • MPE - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Time to get an DVI to HDMI converter!

    Reply
  • L3p3rM355i4h - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    LOL. xbox is going to get pwn3d by this. The first console out, always does (saturn, dreamcast), and the last one, does too (N64, Gamecube, Xbox). In the middle is always sony, and they always own.


    Some pretty damn impressive stats, though more RAM may be helpful for all that PPU stuff they have to do...
    Reply
  • AnnihilatorX - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    #37
    "why 7 controllers? "

    Because the Cell has only 7 SPE units :P
    Reply
  • cryptonomicon - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    HOLY SHIT SON Reply
  • probedb - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Finally maybe consoles that I'll buy :) I hope they do 1080i over component and not just HDMI or we're screwed! Reply
  • Cdeck - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    i had a feeling the ps3 would smoke the xbox 360. ms's only hope was to get theirs out early.

    any word on sony's online gaming? free? not so free? hardwired to your bank account like ms?
    Reply
  • ElFenix - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    37 - if you count the number of controllers in the PS3 connectivity picture on page 3 you get 8. one of them is connected with a solid green line rather than the dashed blue lines of all the others. as the USB stuff is marked with green lines, i guess this is just a wired USB controller. as the controller is blue like the rest, i guess maybe each controller could be wireless or plugged in. Reply
  • sprockkets - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    why 7 controllers?

    seems the only way one is going to be perhaps better than another console another is due to physics processing.

    by the time it's ready to be made, they might as well make the cell processor on a 65nm process.

    dual gbe and other stuff does make for a lot of potential, at least for networking in the house.
    Reply
  • Jynx980 - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Very nice pictures of the demos. Its gotta be tough to get a decent shot in the pit.

    Any word if the games have to support 720p like the Xbox 360?
    Reply
  • Xajel - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    WOW...

    nice introduction anand

    sorry but i just make a small translation to arabic and post some info's in three Arabic forums with a links ofcourse to our lovley anandtech website and a note to mention that all info's are from here...

    forums are
    Montadayat Al Bahrain ( Bahrain Forums )
    http://forum.montadayat.org/showthread.php?t=74545

    Multaqa Al Bahrain ( Bahrain Online )
    http://www.bahrainonline.org/showthread.php?s=&...

    Arab Hardware ( Arab Hardware )
    http://www.arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t...
    Reply
  • bob661 - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Wow. I wasn't expecting this. How about those Unreal shots? Reply
  • Pythias - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Aw! Did i hurtems widdle feewins? Reply
  • sxr7171 - Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - link

    Man, I hate Sony, but I have to admit that this thing is very nice. Let's see when it actually comes out though. The dual 1080p output is unreal, but what's with the aliasing? Can Sony ever get rid of it? I really am beginning to feel sorry for Nintendo at this point. I hope they have something that can keep up. Reply
  • milomnderbnder21 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    "i'm glad there keeping blu-ray. plus built in hard drive. and something very smart."

    It's removable. And we don't know that it will even come bundled yet, though it would be dumb not to do so.

    "I never even looked at the x-box. I was afraid it'd crash 4 times a day. :P"

    Seriously man, what are you, stupid?
    Reply
  • mrgq912 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    OKay disregard question 2. GDDR3 VRAM is the ram being accessed by the GPU.

    Reply
  • mrgq912 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    okay. 3 questions:

    1) The cell has a power pc core at 3.2 ghz. But that power point slide from sony says 7 SPE @ 3.2. Does that mean those SPE's are processors as well since they are being clocked. I always thought of them as mini-CPUs.

    2) How much system ram does it have. I read it will sport 256MB XDR main RAM at 3.2GHz, and it will have 256MB of GDDR VRAM at 700MHz. What the heck is GDDR VRAM? And how does it compare to DDR3 . Is this the RAM that the GPU is accessing? Or ist that different.

    3) What teh heck is that controller? what is sony smoking...2 teraflops. And there was no mention of the removable HD being included with all consoles.
    Reply
  • Sea Shadow - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Both of these systems (Xbox 360 and PS3) are very neat. They sure pack quite a bit of processing power. Nintendo better have an ace up its sleeve or this might end up as their final foray into the world of consoles. Reply
  • Pythias - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I never even looked at the x-box. I was afraid it'd crash 4 times a day. :P Reply
  • ksherman - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    nm... just looked over at the new page... damn that controler is UUGGLLYY Reply
  • ksherman - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    where do you all see pics of the controlers? am i blind or are you looking elsewhere? Reply
  • Googer - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    With all this connectivity, I can see the future of console gaming- PS3 LAN PARTIES! Reply
  • Googer - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    PS3 is so L337
    XB0X is for N00Bz
    Reply
  • Pythias - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    when pc gaming is as competively priced as console gaming, then i'll think about it. Reply
  • michal1980 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I was worried about the ps3 when xbox 360 was announced. but wow, this box looks amazing.
    imho also looks more refined then the xbox. very slickly future cool, like it belongs with a high-tech tv. xbox now looks like an i-mac.

    i'm glad there keeping blu-ray. plus built in hard drive. and something very smart.

    SD cards for removable memory. FINALLY stanard memory cards as opposed to highly over priced units from sony.
    Reply
  • jkostans - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    One thing I've learned is to be very skeptical until after a product has been released and reviewed. I seriously doubt the PS3 will be able to overcome the momentum the X360 will already have. The systems look like they will be equal in performance and features as a whole. Reply
  • Son of a N00b - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    by 2006, i think the PC will have its afir of hardware that can give the ps3 a bit of a spanking...its the same as if alienware(uggg even typing the name is like buying the overpriced crap) were to announce a new PC, say extreme somthing or other, and then say, and its gonna have a 3ghz athlon X2 dual core with 2mb cache, and either 4 nvidia or ati gpu's or vpu's in SLI, and then say, but its not coming out till 2006....same things but ehre are differences....we shall see....or course price is another major facotr...but there is arguements for both sides on that also.... Reply
  • Shinei - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I second the motion of buying a PS3 specifically for an FFVII remake. Holy Jesus. Of course, KillZone 2, Devil May Cry 4, and all my PSX/PS2 favorites is a pretty strong vote in favor of the PS3, as well, so... :) Reply
  • CrystalBay - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    That thing'll run hotter than !!!!. Reply
  • rqle - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    hope these 2 console lower the price of current and next generation GPU. Reply
  • JustAnAverageGuy - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Note to Anand,

    Bring better camera next time.

    Still. Looks impressive!

    - JaAG
    Reply
  • GhandiInstinct - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    YES SHABBY,

    And thats just the beginning of their software potential.
    Reply
  • shabby - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Are those fight night shot for real? They look insane. Reply
  • milomnderbnder21 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I can't help but laugh at all the titles announced though: "title" 4, "title" 4, "title" 6...5,4,4, etc. Come on, let's get some new franchises!

    I like the comparison to a George Foreman grill. The hardware sounds awfully impressive though, and the screens are really good looking. I want to see this and a 360 side by side, for size comparisons, just for kicks.

    The X360 controller looks a LOT nicer. I'll almost certainly go X360, though. I like the games, I like the controller, it comes out sooner. The big thing for me though is the games, the sequels of sequels of sequels bothers me, though microsoft might be headed in that dangerous direction. Then I might have to get a Nintendo. I kind of don't like sony. Don't know why, entirely. I think the PS2 bothered me for getting perhaps more than it deserved. And I hate those contollers...
    Reply
  • knitecrow - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    About the GPU, nvidia have provided fluff... plain and simple.

    I can't say the ATI and microsoft have done a better job with the R500

    but I still don't see how a 300 million transistor card can do 1.8Tflops of processing

    Your 6800 ULTRA is about 222 million transsistors and does ... well i have no idea how much GFlops of processing it does.


    Flops is used by marketing folks to fool the general public.
    Reply
  • erwos - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    If they remade FFVII for PS3, I'd pre-order the damn console and game right now. Seriously.

    -Erwos
    Reply
  • coldpower27 - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Wow, that is amazing can't wait till the Geforce 7 is released now or as it's code name G70:) Reply
  • Cygni - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Deffinitly looks pretty impressive today... but by the time it actually ships, its going to hit TOUGH competition on the PC front. The transistor count thing is pretty funny as well... wonder what an Athlon X2 (200mil) + a pair of 6800 Ultras total as far as transistor count! haha.

    Looks good, but the Cell is still iffy... the issue with 1 disabled unit shows that the yields are probably fairly low, like many assumed. Hard to say which one (PS3 vs 360) which one will get more market share, but the PS3 does seem to pack a little more power, if the Cell can come through.
    Reply
  • GhandiInstinct - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    THIS IS THE FUTURE OMFG, ITS A STAR SHIP, XBOX GATES WHO? OMFG THIS IS IT THIS IS IT DID YOU SEE THOSE SCREEN SHOTS? I DONT EVEN NEED TO PLAY THE GAMES THOSE SS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. MOST AMAZING EVER EXCEPT FOR GPU, BUT 2 TERAFLOPS COMPARED TO ONE? PS3 = SUPER COMPUTER CONSOLE MEGA GENESIS OMFG AMAZING.


    Sorry for caps. Hope it doesnt hurt your ears...
    Reply
  • finbarqs - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    still looks ugly... uglier than the x360, and that's not all that pretty either... Reply
  • Son of a N00b - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    looks more impressive than the Xbox IMO, especially in the SS's ive seen with both...


    darn cannot wait for nvidia's g70 next gen cards...wish i could be a beta tester for SLI for em to be the first on the block...
    Reply
  • knitecrow - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    "Design and specifications are subject to change without notice."













    anyone any still remember how they cut PS2 final specs from the one they unveiled?
    Reply
  • segagenesis - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    Impressive screens, unimpressive controllers. Are they supposed to double as boomerangs? Reply
  • Yongsta - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    "To show off the PlayStation 3's graphical brawn, Sony showed several game demos, including an Unreal 3 tech demo of what appeared to be Unreal Tournament 2007. In what must come as a relief to developers, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for" and that Epic had received its first PS3 hardware two months ago. He proved the tech demo was real time by showing it again and by manipulating the camera and zooming in.

    However, Sweeney's words were only the beginning. Later, Sony trotted out a whole host of publishers that are backing the PlayStation 3. And in the process, it confirmed several games for the console. Hideo Kojima introduced Konami's Metal Gear Solid 4, Capcom showed off Devil May Cry 4, Namco unveiled Tekken 6, Polyphony Digital trotted out Gran Turismo 5, SCEE showed off a brutal section of the next Killzone, and Rockstar Games mentioned that a Grand Theft Auto would be released for the console."
    Reply

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