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  • HardwareD00d - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I'm still waiting for the Intellivision II-HD :P Reply
  • xsilver - Monday, May 16, 2005 - link

    I think the water cooling solution is a good substitute for a giant copper/alum heatsink, which will be expensive.... what they might do is have a zalman reserator type thing going but with the water all inside, filling up all the air gaps
    the whole xbox will then be warm and only a small fan or no fan will be needed
    Reply
  • ImJacksAmygdala - Sunday, May 15, 2005 - link

    Has anyone found out if you can surf the web using a wireless router? I have read rumors of this on the web. I have also heard rumors of DVD video being upscaled to 720p.

    Can anyone confirm these rumors? I would actually be surprised if microsoft got this part right.
    Reply
  • Zebo - Sunday, May 15, 2005 - link

    ATM - you need to chill. Anand is as straight laced as they come I've witnessed this 4 years now..unassailable (no offence anand:P) Reply
  • miketheidiot - Saturday, May 14, 2005 - link

    #51

    the 1 teraflop claim includes the GPU performance. GPU's have incredible floating point performance, a 900+ gflop graphics chip is not completely unreasonable, although still rediculous
    Reply
  • Cdeck - Saturday, May 14, 2005 - link

    I thank #35 for providing the links referencing the one teraflop claim. I find it very hard to believe. I know the PowerPC is a very capable processor but this would mean a 30+ fold increase per node over the current. I am a retired software developer and i am not buying it. It's simply marketing smoke and mirrors.

    Currently, a one teraflop workstation/server is in the $100,000 to $200,000 range. If IBM could have developed a 333 gflop core, they would have kept it for themselves. I would expect these general purpose cores to be about 1/10 of what they claim or about 100 gflops for the 3 cores.

    Nonetheless, they have built us an impressive game rig and i am looking forward to it.
    Reply
  • sprockkets - Saturday, May 14, 2005 - link

    the cosoles of course always lose money
    I'm just curious to see if all this power acutally translates into anything.
    dreamcast used heatpipe cooling, not water cooling.
    Not entirely related, but it sucks that Conker's bad fur day for the N64 and for the xbox came out and again will come out as soon as the console it came on is replaced by the next generation console that same year.
    Reply
  • finbarqs - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    water cooling (from my experience) does not cool better than air cooling. Well.. that's not entirely accurate. Depending on what fan we're using! For watercooling, i think i got it to be the same temperatures as a 4000 RPM fan on my northwood proc. Hrm... but what watercooling does excel is when i had a peltier in it... WOO WEE!!! then it got cold!!! water cooling is over rated, unless you want a quiet system. I think that's why they went this route. Also, i've read that this console will be under $300. For something this powerful, it is cheap. You can't even get a video card this cheap! Reply
  • Swaid - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    creathir
    And in the real world we call that a heat pipe, that is a far shot from a water cooling system as heat pipes consist mainly amonia (or any other liquid with simular properties) and yes there can be some h2o in it for a greater specific heat index.
    Reply
  • artifex - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    ANY word on price?

    Also, many modders of the current box just use it for media center type stuff and linux stuff. If they never play games, who cares about the mod restrictions? :)
    Reply
  • ImJacksAmygdala - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Does the Xbox360 upscale DVD 480p to 720p or 1080i via HDMI to an HDTV?

    Can I surf the web with a wireless keyboard and mouse via the USB?

    Can I use a MCE remote?

    Can I get DD5.1 or greater for games and movies on my audio reciever?

    If the answer is no to any of the above I will pass on the Xbox360 and just build a HTPC. I hope Microsoft has been paying attention what the HTPC and widescreen gaming crowds are doing.

    Does anybody know the answer to these questions?
    Reply
  • creathir - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    I suppose water cooling is hard to believe for most here in the PC world because most PC users are used to the giant tanks of water and stuff with tubes coming out the back of your machine. Water cooling in these cases is because the heat dissipation is relatively similar to that of with just air, but ya don't have to have the high RPM/giant fans that you do with air solutions... It really does make a lot of sense why they do it...
    - Creathir
    Reply
  • Houdani - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    I predict that ATM will next accuse Anand of *hosting* the alleged torrent/warez site. Sheesh.

    So, um, ahem -- ATM, what'cha doing with those dubious files which supposedly originated from an illicit source anyhoo?

    pot = black = kettle
    Reply
  • DCstewieG - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Why is water cooling so unbelievable? Apple is using it. And IIRC even Dreamcast was. Reply
  • milomnderbnder21 - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    "#15, so you're marketing a GAMING product to NON-gamers...This makes complete sense..."

    They know that the gamers are going to be watching all the coverage of E3 next week, or they are reading the specs online, they don't need to appeal to us on MTV. They are on there to catch the interest of the people that otherwise wouldn't be too interested. Marketers are smarter than you give them credit for.

    "water cooled (I also doub't that) or not."

    What, you think they are going to just straight up lie about that? Again, how stupid do you think they are? They wouldn't be so a big, rich, powerful corporation that out of nowhere broke into the console industry if they weren't smart.

    I think the system looks pretty sexy, and as more coverage comes out of games and stuff I'm getting more and more excited about this, as stupid as the MTV thing was I understand it wasn't meant for me. I'm really looking forwards to what comes out of E3.
    Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    AnandThenMan

    It does look very close, here's my MCE shot (ignore the file name, the MTV Guide was off yesterday for some reason but the timestamp explains all):

    http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/xbox360/...

    As for the cores being really hot - remember that they are much simpler cores than any modern day desktop CPU, so don't assume they would eat the same amount of power. And it is also possible that IBM is using the same sort of dynamic domino logic in the Xbox 360 CPU as they did in Cell to keep power consumption down.

    Take care,
    Anand
    Reply
  • blwest - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    #15, so you're marketing a GAMING product to NON-gamers...This makes complete sense... Reply
  • blwest - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    #8, why are you even on these forums? Go AWAY. Reply
  • blwest - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    By the mere fact that Microsoft associates themselves with MTV, I am NOT buying one. Reply
  • creathir - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    #36
    You need to adjust your monitor...
    His capture is different from your capture.
    The color differences are quite apparent.

    #22
    The official Microsoft specs state the following:

    Overall System Floating-Point Performance:
    1 teraflop

    Check it out at:
    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm

    That’s where the figure comes from... it also was mentioned by J. Allard at GDC, as well as in the ourcolony.net video. Anand got it right;)

    - Creathir
    Reply
  • AnandThenMan - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Anand here's your screen grab:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/skynet107/c...
    and here's mine, probably the same frame
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/skynet107/s...
    and another one a few frames back
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/skynet107/s...

    damn they sure do look similar. you must have exactly the same capture hardware. 8>)
    But I believe you.

    One thing that really bugs me is how 3 3.2 gig processors can reside in a small enclosure like that without going thermo nuclear. I just don't see how it is possible, water cooled (I also doub't that) or not.
    Reply
  • bldckstark - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    #22 - According to whatis.com at the following link;
    http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gc...
    "A teraflop is a measure of a computer's speed and can be expressed as:
    A trillion floating point operations per second
    10 to the 12th power floating-point operations per second
    2 to the 40th power flops
    Today's fastest parallel computing operations are capable of teraflop speeds. Scientists have begun to envision computers operating at petaflop speeds."
    If 333Gflop processors only exist in Star Trek then I guess warp drive for my car is just around the corner!!
    Reply
  • Houdani - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    22: Anand yanked that stat out of the fact sheet. Of course, they don't explicitly state whether all of those flops are occurring solely within the CPU or a combo of the CPU & GPU.

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm
    Reply
  • Son of a N00b - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    ill stick with my PC, FPS's are alwas better on them....


    anyways looks good though, did not think it would be this powerful. but it cannot go as planned and MS makes tons of money, so something will go wrong b4...it seems to perfect of a plan/product....welcome to thw world of MS ig guess...
    Reply
  • xpose - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    ummm, Why did they not show, or talk about the controller more closely. Lame Reply
  • Atropine - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Well.............actually never owned a gaming console but the Atari 2600 and Sega Genesis.......oh yeah and the original Nintendo gaming console Reply
  • Atropine - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    I never owned a gaming console, always stuck with PC gaming, but reading the specs on the XBOX 360, it sounds very tempting to get one..........................very nice system. Reply
  • fitten - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    "It will be a waste if these aren't used for some type of distributed computing when they are not playing games."

    Depends on which DC project. There are some DC which are considered by some to be a waste of electricity.
    Reply
  • Kishkumen - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Nice summary article. Is it bad that I'm looking forward more to the possibility of having a cheap PowerPC system on which to run Linux than a new gaming machine? In Microsoft's opinion, probably so. Nevertheless, if the XBox 360 turns out to be anywhere as moddable as the XBox One, I will be thrilled. Reply
  • Dukemaster - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    ''There's a lot more to this powerful new console, and we will be covering it as well as the hardware behind Sony's Playstation 3 during next week's E3 expo in Los Angeles.''

    And againg Nintendo's new console isn't even mentioned. It just shows how much most people are interested in that console and how low expectations are...
    Reply
  • segagenesis - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    I dont think the Silver/Gold tier service will discourage modding, most people who have the current x-box modded either *dont care* about X-Box Live or just use another unmodded one just for that purpose. However, I doubt it (360) will be modded for at least several years.

    "community-created content, and more to the detachable Xbox 360 hard drive" this is to be seen, how will the community create content for something they cant mess with :P
    Reply
  • JNo - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Hate to big up the competition and and appear that am disrepecting Anandtech but check out tomshardware for lots of very interesting extra info made possible by the fact that they got to interview Mr Henshaw at MS. Think my current modded xbox is awesome and simply can't wait till this one is modded.... Reply
  • Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    AnandThenMan

    The screenshots were from my own capture of the show - I've got the original file on my MCE machine if you're interested in more proof :)

    Take care,
    Anand
    Reply
  • CurtOien - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    "Can't wait for the XBox cluster to top the supercomputer chart now :)"

    It will be a waste if these aren't used for some type of distributed computing when they are not playing games.
    Reply
  • Cdeck - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    i believe there is an error in your article, a reference to 1 teraflop.

    ms's little web wmv about the xbox 360 stated one trillion instructions per second, not a teraflop. we must assume they counted everything, including ati's video instruction count. a 333 gflop proc only exists in star trek.

    the writer did a good job extracting what little info this mtv thingy had. i never saw it.

    i agree with #19. if i can plug a keyboard into the xbox or ps3, i am throwing my pc in the trash.

    Reply
  • Bonesdad - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    continual PC upgrades sure...you think this is the be all and end all of the XBox? You will be buying another new model in 2 years. Reply
  • Jalf - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Hang on, I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast also internally rendered at higher resolution (which is why you got higher res by using their VGA adapter).
    So not the first console to do it... But still neat. ;)
    Reply
  • InuYasha - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    i think i'll spend my upgrading money for XBox360 and PS3 instead of my PC from now on...
    Reply
  • BenSkywalker - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    "The support for 720p in all games is quite important as it marks the first time that a game console will have games that renders frames internally at resolutions greater than 640x480."

    While it is true that it will be the first time games are always rendered at higher then 480p standard(which isn't 640x480 btw) there are current XBox titles running 1080i-

    http://www.hdtvpub.com/productdb/games/index.cfm

    May not be a huge list, but XB360 certainly won't be the first time games run higher then 480p(this list does NOT include upsacled games).
    Reply
  • AnandThenMan - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    KristopherKubicki I saw some screenshots of the event, they were from some warez group named Loki. The screenshots were exactly the same rez, quality, colour, everything. It's from the same torrent. I have no problem with it but I am surprised that Anandtech would seek out and use such material considering the torrent very likely came for a warez site.

    As for the MTV event, it was horrible. Useless is a better word.The Xbox 360 looks like it could be performance monster!
    Reply
  • KristopherKubicki - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    AnandThenMan: Who said Anand didn't just capture the images? What makes you think they are warezed?

    Kristopher
    Reply
  • knitecrow - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    First and foremost, the MTV special was targeted towards casual and/or non-gamers. The readers of anandtech and other technies should just realize they are in the minority. Lowest denominator wins here.


    The MTV special sucked -- I wouldn’t go around making concrete conclusions based on that.




    The full details are going to be released at E3
    Reply
  • Staples - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    #6

    There will be no web access. Go to teamxbox and read. Seems a lot of sites made articles based on yesterday's specualtion.
    Reply
  • Staples - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    The MTV showing was super mediocre but I am glad TXB filled in with most the details. Reply
  • Shinei - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Well, I'm grateful that AT put this article up in the first place, warez pictures or not. Some people just don't like the icky feeling of stupidity they get whenever they watch MTV, and so they, like me, didn't see the MTV "unveiling"--this compresses the show into a tolerable tidbit of tasty data, and confirms/disproves a number of rumors. gg :) Reply
  • AnandThenMan - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    WOW I'm kinda shocked. Anandtech has resorted to taking screenshots from torrent releases????? Dayum. Posting screenshots from a warez group release is bad for a commercial hardware site Mkay?

    Reply
  • phaxmohdem - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    IBM must realy be sitting on some gold here. They've got their hands in nearly every upcoming gaming rigs processor it seems. Can't wait for the XBox cluster to top the supercomputer chart now :) Reply
  • barnett25 - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Um, the Xbox 360 has USB ports that can have both a mouse and keyboard plugged in, HDTVs are almost as good as monitors (I know they're expensive, I don't have one either), and the Xbox has a hard drive. Reply
  • IceWindius - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    I'll be buying one, getting kinda tired of the continual PC upgrade process just to play games, gets old after awhile..... Reply
  • UzairH - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Blah. Consoles suck. Unless they come with keyboard, mouse, can hook up to monitors, and have fast hard disks.
    Reply
  • Zebo - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    OH ^^^^ and of course you need an MSN subscription to actually do any webbrowsing , newsgroups etc;) Reply
  • Zebo - Friday, May 13, 2005 - link

    Can someone explain to me why MS does'nt bundle a version of windows with this?

    Why you can't have print and a other PC capabilites?

    Seems to me MS could totally own the hardware business too if they did such a thing!!! Putting even Dell out to pasture!

    MS could even sell thier Xbox only apps, like office, explorer, (which of course have to call home for validation, no more warez) and charge insane development costs for wannabe writers for thier xbox PC. Like apple, but they could actually make it work.

    Reply
  • josedawg - Thursday, May 12, 2005 - link

    Was I the only one disappointed in how little about the Xbox 360 was actually mentioned during this "preview"? They couldve shown all of the important stuff in a 3min commercial. The rest was filled with celebrity filler. What the deal? Reply
  • QueBert - Thursday, May 12, 2005 - link

    as much as I dislike Microsoft, from a technical standpoint the Xbox 360 has tons of potential. Too bad I'm sure the games will blow :) Reply
  • Googer - Thursday, May 12, 2005 - link

    Can anyone remember when MTV used to play music? Or has music gone the way of the dinosaur since they no longer teach it in schools anymore.

    Since when has MTV become this slave for crappy product launches? Can anyone do this? I want to buy sometime on MTV to launch my new line of K-9 underoos and lacy bras for your favorite mut in heat.
    Reply
  • Eug - Thursday, May 12, 2005 - link

    So... 128 VMX-128 registers? Reply

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