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  • JarredWalton - Monday, June 13, 2005 - link

    58 - ??? The Mid-Range to High-End went up a couple weeks ago. Next update in a couple more weeks, I guess. :D
  • SAV602 - Thursday, June 09, 2005 - link

    This month? Reply
  • spartacvs - Saturday, May 14, 2005 - link

    Yepeee! Reply
  • JarredWalton - Saturday, May 14, 2005 - link

    It's coming soon! :p Reply
  • spartacvs - Thursday, May 12, 2005 - link

    Hey guys, it's time for a new system guide :) Reply
  • TrogdorJW - Friday, March 25, 2005 - link

    Sorry - ignore that last post, but I guess my comments name and pass don't work in the forums. Just wanted to check. :) Reply
  • TrogdorJW - Friday, March 25, 2005 - link

    Testing.... Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, March 24, 2005 - link

    jwf1776 sent me a reply email which updates the situation. I'll just post the text with links here:
    I don't know why I sent you the link the to enermax site, because the site does make it seem like its atx 2.03 ... but it's all lies...

    The manual I got with the power supply was pretty clear about which models had 24pin rails. They have a 24P on the model number or something.

    Anyways, the maxpoint site (American enermax distributor?) has the correct stats at

    Also here is a review of the part

    Both sites make clear its atx 1.3

    So, there you have it: the Enermax 375 is *not* a 24-pin EPS 12V compliant motherboard. It *does* have dual rails, which may be sufficient, but that's not the same as supporting the ATX 2.0x standard. It looks like Enermax needs to fix their spec pages....
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - link

    jwf1776: I sent this in an email to him as well, but here's my question to you all: is this a case of false advertising by Enermax or not? Here is an image for the alternative PSU:

    It doesn't have a 24-pin connector, per se, but it has a 20 pin with a second 4-pin connector that makes it into a 24-pin. Note that there is *also* a second 4-pin +12V adapter for the standard P4 power connector. Unless someone can confirm that the PSU doesn't include the two 4-pin adapters, I believe it still qualifies as a 24-pin PSU. ATX 12V 2.01 vs. ATX 12V 2.03 - is there really a major difference other than the 24-pin adapter bein in one piece?
  • Jep4444 - Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - link

    48 - the adapter doesn't do very much, it'll work without an adapter Reply
  • jwf1776 - Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - link

    my sources are showing Thermaltake W0013 Xaser Silent Purepower 480W at $60 as the cheapest acceptable atx 2.03 available Reply
  • jwf1776 - Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - link

    47 - the point is that it was "important to make sure that the alternative PSU included a 24-pin power connector" and it did not

    you dig?
  • Jep4444 - Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - link

    a 20-pin PSU will work on a 24-pin mobo Reply
  • jwf1776 - Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - link

    the alternative power supply EG375P-VE-SFMA doesn't have a 24pin rail!!

    I ordered it at found out the hard way.

    please make a correction!
  • Jep4444 - Thursday, March 17, 2005 - link

    looking at those X300HM, you can clearly see the higher memory HyperMemory cards fair better with AA than the higher clocked low memory ones

    scrolling down the page, their isn't a direct 32MB/64MB comparison of the 6200TC but both are benched and you can see the 64MB 6200TC is faster than the 32MB only when AA is on

    I guess it doesn't entirely matter though given the 32MB one can't even be found on newegg ATM(or atleast i couldn't find one)
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    41 - Ah, that could very well be. In that case, I'd be curious to see the difference in performance between the 32MB and 64MB 64-bit TC cards. :| Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    42 - I had no idea Rosewill was related to Newegg. Newegg itself is just the online reseller of another company, ABS Computers or some such. At least, that was my understanding. Rosewill's RMA process seems a little questionable (i.e. restrictive), which doesn't really jive with them being Newegg. Of course, maybe it's just Newegg's way to sell certain products without needing to provide as much customer support? Reply
  • Zepper - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    Just in case the author didn't know, Rosewill isn't an independent company. It is the in-house packaging division of Newegg (like Mad Dog is to CompUSA, etc.). You can often find the same item for less under its actual name than in a Rosewill box.
  • Jep4444 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    The one benchmarked in the article under the name 64b is the 32MB/64bit one as mentioned on the first page and the 32b is 16MB/32bit

    I've seen a couple benches suggesting that the onboard RAM only makes a noticeable difference when AA is turned on at which point the 32MB cards seem to hit rock bottom dropping a significant amount of FPS(the ATI one does it too)
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    Jep4444 - I'm still not entirely sure on whether the 6200TC-32 is a 32-bit or 64-bit interface. Looking at the performance, it appears to be a 32-bit interface as the TC-64 beats it by a large margin. Then again, the presence of more local memory might cause the performance difference. Anyway, regardless of whether the TC-32 is a 32-bit or 64-bit interface, I would definitely stick with the TC-64 or full 6200 over the TC-16/32. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    38 - I changed to the 9550 after the earlier corrections, as I had a 9600SE initially. I'll fix the text to suggest the purchase of a fanless 9550 and make the 9600 reference more appropriate. Thanks. Reply
  • doganti - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    The article reads:
    "AGP Graphics Recommendation:MSI Radeon 9550 128MB DDR 128-bit, 250/400 GPU/RAM clock (bulk/OEM)
    There isn't a whole lot to differentiate the 9550 cards from one another, as they are all fanless.."

    I have Asus A9550 GE - Radeon 9550,128MB DDR,128 Bit and it has a fan (which has turned bad=noisy in a month).
    Thus, also this is not clear: ".... The Radeon 9600 (without the SE) is also a decent alternative that will only cost an extra $15, and with it, you bump the memory bus up to 128-bits."
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    31 - If you can afford the bump to Athlon 64 3000+, the MSI RS480M2-IL would definitely be my pick for a board with IGP. Unfortunately, that adds $75 for the CPU upgrade (relative to the Sempron 2600+), but it also improves performance a decent amount. The ATI Xpress 200 is currently the best (BY FAR!) IGP on the market. It gives you S-VIDEO as well as VGA out. Too bad it doesn't have a DVI port as well. :)

    If that's too much... well, there are a lot of NF2 IGP boards for under $70. The NF2 is probably the better IGP between that and the K8M800 chipset, but the socket 754 CPUs are generally faster. With the price differences between platforms, I'd probably shoot for the Sempron 3000+ on socket A if you go for that platform. (The Barton core is simply the better choice, IMO.) That would compare relatively well with the socket 754 Sempron 2800+ - win some, lose some in benchmarks. I guess it really doesn't matter *too* much if you're not looking for the best performance possible. $150 gets you a decent CPU and mobo for socket A of socket 754, while on socket 939 it only gets you a CPU.
    For the other comments, the PDP isn't great for overclocking, but with a price now at $130 and 2-3-2-5 timings, I'd take the GB of RAM even at stock speeds. If it OCs decently, great. If it doesn't, you should still be fine at stock speeds.

    The Hitachi drives may not have the best RMA process, but let's be honest: if you need to use the RMA on *any* hard drive, you'll be very unhappy. I don't think any of the 7200 drives would fail in most systems if they're the only HDD. Just don't put a bunch of them next to each other without proper cooling. At $60 for an 80GB drive, I would probably make backups and if the HDD failed I'd buy a new drive while I RMA'ed the old one. That's just me, though.

    Finally, the motherboard area is just such a hard one to give *one* recommendation. Even a recommendation and alternative doesn't really do justice to the available parts. There are so many good boards these days that are all within close proximity in terms of price. If I were looking for socket 939 boards, I'd go as follows in terms of chipsets:

    nForce 4 (preferrably not 4X, but any are good)
    ATI Xpress 200 (not many available yet)
    VIA K8T890
    nForce 3 Ultra
    VIA K8T800 Pro
    ALi/ULi/SiS whatever

    I'd go with the top three over the bottom three by a pretty significant margin. K8T800 Pro is now about 9 months old, IIRC. It's still okay, but I wouldn't look to save money by going that route. The nF3 is the same, but it's the better chipset for AGP, IMO. Given the price the K8T800 Pro usually wins out, however.
  • Messudieh - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    I have the PDP RAM that you mentioned in your review, and I can honestly say that the ability to overclock any one set is sort of a crap shoot it seems. It sounds to me like they use a couple of different types of chips (some being the TCCD chips, while others Infineon) that can all run at the stated 2-3-2-5 speeds, at 2.6 volts in my case.

    I think I got a set of something other than TCCDs, because I can't overclock them past about 210 with ANY timings on a DFI NF4 ultra-D with a watercooled 939 3000 and keep it stable, even at 3.1 or 3.2 volts.

    Like I's a crap shoot; some people get lucky, and others don't. I'm getting this RAM:
    And selling my Patriot to my friend, who doesn't overclock.
  • Jep4444 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    oops forgot that the MSI board is 939, either way the Winchester based Athlons are good overclockers anyways Reply
  • BPB - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    "Semprons K8s are typically very good overclockers so i wouldn't rule out that noones is going to overclock them in a budget machine"

    Do they make socket 939 Semrpons?

    As for me, I went with the MSI ATi based board and am very happy. Put in a 939 3000+, and a Hitachi 80GB SATA II drive. The Hitachi was only $62 at ZipZoonFly. So for a tad more got SATA II (I know, no SATA II controller on this board, but at least the drive has it). The board also has slightly better than average onboard sound, going with the Realtek ALC658C, not the 650 or 655 found in other boards.

    Eventually will put a capture card and mid-level video card. I now have a pretty fast system for the price. Oh, went with the 1GB PDP Patriot memory in the article. No problems to report with anything. Very, very happy with the setup.
  • Jep4444 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    "The only downside is that the MSI's uATX board doesn't have any OC capability, but who's looking for that in a budget-minded PC?"

    Semprons K8s are typically very good overclockers so i wouldn't rule out that noones is going to overclock them in a budget machine
  • razor2025 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    Why no mention of MSI Neo4-F? It's less than the Chaintech @ $95 shipped at ZZF and it has same PCB as the Neo4 Platinum. That's much better choice over the Chaintech if you're going NF4 route. I also belive that the Xpress200 chipset should've been included as alternative. It's the perfect board for budget PC and it'll allow LOTS of options for upgrades later down the road. The only downside is that the MSI's uATX board doesn't have any OC capability, but who's looking for that in a budget-minded PC?
    If AMD can get a Sempron out for Socket 939 for around $100... then we can have some really nice sub $400-500 PC with lots of options for upgrade.
  • jxtramd - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    OK I've followed the budget guide now for about 6 months and I'm on the cusp of a decision about building an AMD IGP based system. The choices are either from the Jan 05 guide with the MSI (or other) MB with the nForce2 IGP or the Mar 05 Chaintech (or other) MB with the VIA K8M800 IGP. Both systems with an appropiate Sempron 2600 and 512 memory. Between the two which combo gives the better graphics performance? I'm not interested in gaming. Just a basic system with the ability to capture video and watch DVD's as examples. A IGP system fits my budget - any comments? Reply
  • Jep4444 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    A little look on newegg has shown that every 32-bit 6200TC has 16MB of onboard RAM, oddly enough their are NO 32MB 6200TCs on newegg at all(whether 32 or 64-bit)

    also i looked at the review you guys posted on the 6200TC and here's a little bit of info on the 16MB and 32MB parts

    "With NVIDIA talking about bringing the new 32MB 64-bit TurboCache part out at $99 and the 16MB 32-bit part out at $79"
  • LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    Note on the Hitachi hard disk drives:

    Hitachi is the ONLY major company that does not allow advance-exchange RMA of their hard disks. To me, this is huge when looking at a hard disk. Western Digital, Seagate, and Maxtor all have advanced exchange. After the nightmares I have had with IBM and Hitachi technical support, I could not in all honesty recommend them in a system. Personally, I can't afford that kind of downtime, having an advance replacement makes it easier to try and recover data from a crashed drive if necessary, and you aren't waiting in limbo while someone receives your defective drive, checks it in, diagnoses it bad, then sends you out a replacement, also placing you at the mercy of their stock-on-hand or whomever they choose to ship to you the replacement drive.
  • neologan - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    There's another buyers guide at but it doesn't choose its recommedations due to a really strict budget. Worth a read though i guess. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    26 - Thanks. Identity crisis indeed! I was originally looking at upgraded S754 instead of S939, but decided against it. :)

    As a side note, RAM prices have suddenly taken a massive cut. The PDP 2-3-2-5 is now $20 less than last week, and it's about $50 less than a couple months ago. Heck, you can even get 1GB (2x512) of Corsair CL2.5 for under $100 now - again, $50 less than last Guide!
  • chrisd154 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    "Socket 754 Alternative Motherboard: Chaintech VNF4 Socket 939"

    "Socket 754 CPU: AMD Athlon 64 1.8 GHz 512KB L2 90nm socket 939"

    Your socket 754 motherboard and cpu are having a bit of an identity crisis (i.e theyre 939). You might want to correct that mate.
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    24 - you want benchmarks of the speakers? Sorry, that's *way* beyond the scope of this Guide. Speakers costing $60 or less aren't being purchased primarily for their quality; they're being selected for price.

    If you mean benchmarks in general, that's something that would be great to have but not practical to do. Our various hardware reviews are meant to address the theory of what makes a good component/computer. For many of the parts in a budget system, price is a bigger factor than the final performance or quality. Sure, we'd like to have both, but the truth is you're not going to get SLI in a budget system. We do not have all of the parts available in one location for testing, and some of the parts may not even be in AnandTech's possession [anymore]. This is especially true of entry-level Guides, as many of the parts were new a year or more in the past

    If you'd like specific information or you have a specific question, feel free to email me.
  • crimson117 - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    I'd appreciate if you could add some benchmarks to compare "beeps and boops" quality. This guide is pretty much worthless without them. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - link

    The MSI uATX is the only ATI Xpress 200 board currently available, and it's basically the same price as the Chaintech. Given that it's still pretty new, I'm a little hesitant to go with that over the "proven" nF4. Oh, and there are *no* overclocking options on the MSI board right now. Is that a BIOS problem or a chipset problem? I don't know. If you really like ATI or if you want a uATX form factor, it's definitely an option. Reply
  • kmmatney - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    I'd consider the MSI ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 motherboard board for a budget system as well. From reviews I've read, using the on-board video doesn't seem to degrade overall 2D performance.
    Pair it with an Athlon 64 3000+ winchester for $235. A decent system for the non or light gamer, and you have the option of upgrading the video later. Too bad there aren't any budget 939 cpus.

  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    I haven't had issues with the Chaintech, but that's only one person's experience with a specific RAM/GPU setup. The documentation is pretty lacking, but other than that it works well. Are you speaking from personal experience, and if so, what was the exact configuration (RAM, CPU, PSU, etc.)? It works well in the following configuration, although I had to manually set the RAM timings:

    Athlon64 3500+
    Chaintech nForce4 VNF4
    ATI X800 XL 256MB PCIe
    1GB (2x512) Corsair DDR400 CAS2.5
    Antec True430 PSU
    NEC ND-3520A DVD±RW
    WD 200GB SATA
    SB Audigy 2 ZS

    As for the DVD+RW, why save $20 when there won't be anything faster than a 16X burner, and the ability to backup 4.5GB of data rather than 700MB can come in handy? (And if that sounds like too much data, consider that a lot of people take digital pictures these days. A few hundred high quality images will fill a CD.) I mentioned the possibility to downgrade the optical drive, but I'm not going to recommend it.
  • mostlyprudent - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Are you serious ... recommending a motherboard with compatability and stability problems just to save $10? And why put a DVD-RW drive in a budget system? Optical drives are quite simple to upgrade down the road. You would have to be crazy to skimp on the quality of the motherboard to fit in an upgraded optical drive. You can get a DVD-ROM/CD-RW combo drive for about $20 less than the NEC drive you suggest. I would take that $20 dollars and invest it in a stable/reliable motherboard -- there is nothing worse than a finiky mobo as far as I'm concerned. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    17 - The older Maxtor are like the older WD: they use standard bearings and are prone to develop a whine (in my experience). If you can verify that the drive has fluid dynamic bearings, you could get Maxtor as well. I haven't had great experiences with the Maxtor drives, although I've heard the latest models are better. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    15 - Sorry, I meant "9550" but typed "5500". The article lists the correct card, though. :o Most of the FX cards aren't worth consideration.

    As for the 6200TC, there are actually 3 versions, all of which were tested in the AnandTech article. There is a 16MB 16-bit card (one RAM chip), a 32MB 32-bit card (two RAM chips), and a 64MB 64-bit card (four RAM chips). The 32MB cards are not a 64-bit interface as far as I am aware. Many companies are causing confusion on the TC cards as they'll count the PCIe connection as bandwidth in order to make the features look better. Even if the RAM were 700 MHz instead of 550 MHz, you're looking at 2800 MBps on-card bandwidth for the 32-bit version vs. 4400 MBps on the 64-bit version. In theory, the PCIe connection will add an additional 2000 MBps (roughly - 2000 up and 2000 down) , but some of the RAM bandwidth is going to the CPU.

    16 - I'd take the guaranteed 6600 for $7 more over the 6200. The 6200 also lacks support for certain memory compression schemes as I understand it.
  • Klober - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    I know this is a minor point, but I'm curious as to why Maxtor isn't mentioned in the price guide for hard drives. Is there something I don't know about them concerning speed, noise or reliability? Reply
  • filterxg - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    To most people I'd continue to recommend a 6200 over a 6600 vanilla. Rivatuner unlocks the 4 pipelines (softmod), so it becomes an indentical card. Reply
  • Jep4444 - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    "Oh, as far as the budget PCIe card recommendation going to the 64MB 6200TC, please read the benchmarks in our 6200TC article before saying that the 32MB/32-bit version is better (due to memory speeds)."

    you seem to be confusing cards, i'm talking about the 32MB/64bit part thats clocked at 700mhz(as opposed to 550mhz of the 64MB one)
    you're thinking of the 16MB version thats 32bit

    PS who said to use the 5500? he mentioned the 9550 which is faster than the 5500
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    13 - Regarding refurb, that's something for the individual to decide. Warranty and availability are limited, so we don't recommend them in Guides. I still don't know about the Chaintech, as I can't find concrete information on specs for the Ultra vs. standard. According to Chaintech, it's the standard nF4 vs. the Ultra, which means the only thing that gets lost is SATA-2 support and a few network "enhancements". They're the same chipset with different resistors cut. Reply
  • Fricardo - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Same as those above, I'd say go with a 6600 non-gt for the upgraded setup. If you're actually going to upgrade the vid-card -- indicating you care somewhat about gaming -- you might as well do it right and spend the extra $7.

    Is it worth the $10 savings to go from the Ultra mobo to the vanilla? I don't know but I've heard that chipset wasn't made to OC well. Seems like you'd get a bit more value and $99 is still a great price for a mobo. I'm just wondering.

    Another possibility for reducing cost is refurbed parts. I've been looking through NewEgg's refurb video section lately and there's tons of great cards for cheap. PCI-Express too. It seems to me you can really raise value that way.
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Oh, as far as the budget PCIe card recommendation going to the 64MB 6200TC, please read the benchmarks in our 6200TC article before saying that the 32MB/32-bit version is better (due to memory speeds). The bump from 32-bit to 64-bit more than makes up for the slower RAM (if it is indeed slower). The 64MB 6200TC also beats the X300 in *every* test, so there's no reason to go with the X300 card unless you insist on ATI.

    I'm actually not fully convinced the "TurboCache" architecture really works all that well. Looking at the various cards, the performance scales almost directly with local memory bandwidth. But that's a topic for another day.
  • JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Oops... some bad picks on the GPUs this time. I keep forgetting the 5500. I have updated the GPU page with new picks, and will shortly update the summaries. I guess after seeing 6600 AGP prices I forgot that the PCIe cards were substantially less. Sorry.

    I also corrected the VNF4 to omit the Ultra. I can't tell if the Ultra includes Firewire support or not. Newegg, at least, is using the same images for both models. I think that's what threw me off in the first place.
  • rivethead - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Sorry about my post #7. I just re-read it and I wasn't very clear.

    What I was trying to say is that I think you're wanting to recommend the Chaintech VNF4 mother board (currently $89 shipped from newegg). This board is different than the Chaintech VNF4/Ultra which is about $100 shipped. For the extra $11, you get a motherboard powered by the nvidia nForce 4 Ultra chip which includes onboard firewall, SATA2 support, and nvidia nTune performance software.

    For me, I think the extra $11 is worth the features.

    I beleive you'll need to either change the price or alter the narrative to be clearer on your board selection.

    But if you really can find the Chaintech VNF4/Ultra for $89 please let me know where!
  • rivethead - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    The Leadtek GeForce 6600 is $109 at NewEgg. It's only $7 more than your 6200 PCI-E selection. Reply
  • rivethead - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    "what happen to 6600 non-GT?"

    Man, that's an excellent question. I was wondering the same thing.
  • rivethead - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    I think you're socket 939 mobo recommendation is incorrect.

    The Chaintech board that's $91 shipped (actually $89 shipped from NewEgg) is the nForce 4 board, but it's not ULTRA, meaning you don't get the firewall, the SATA2, or NVIDIA nTune software.

    I THINK this is the board you're wanting to recommend.

    If it really is the Chaintech ULTRA board, please let me know exactly where I can get it for $89 shipped.

    BTW, if you do a pricegrabber search on the Chaintech VNF4 Ultra board, the non Ultra board will erroneously be displayed in the results for new egg.

    The Chaintech VNF 4 ULTRA board is $101 at ChiefValue....that's the cheapest I can find it.
  • rivethead - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

  • bigpow - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    what happen to 6600 non-GT? Reply
  • Jep4444 - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    you beat me to it ChineseDemocracyGNR, the 9600SEs 64bit bus cripples the 9600 far more than the 75mhz core clock reduction on the 9550

    also the 64MB 6200TCs are even slower than the 32MB ones due to use of slower memory, the X300 would beat either of them anyways

    you guys really didn't look enough on the budget GPU recomendations
  • Booster - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Displays - 'costED a year ago' - is that correct? Reply
  • ChineseDemocracyGNR - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    "AGP Graphics Recommendation: Sapphire Radeon 9600 SE 128MB DDR 64-bit, 325/400 GPU/RAM clock (bulk/OEM)"

    This is a very, very bad recommendation. The Radeon 9550 128MB ***128-bit*** will give much better performance for the same money.

    "PCIe Graphics Recommendation: Leadtek GeForce 6200TC 64-bit, 64MB (256 shared) PCIe with 350 MHz core"
    I also don't agree with the PCI-E recommendation. I don't think $71 is a good price for a 64MB 64-bit 6200 when the X300 (not SE) is only $76.

    I actually don't mind this though, but the 9600SE is so bad I hope you change the guide before more people read it.
  • filterxg - Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - link

    Another great read. Thanks for the guide! Reply

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