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  • XPgeek - Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - link

    Today I purchased this eVGA GF FX 5700 Ultra. i have no complaints of image quality. i am using the 52.16 betas, and Battlefiled 1942 and its XPacks run great, as do the rest of my games. The only issue i have is its length. in my case, the power connector nestles right up to one of my hard drives. but it does fit. barely.

    To re-itterate, this is a very nice card. no, i havent tested a 9600Pro / XT myself, but o well. no i dont work for AT or any other reviewing site. and no im not biased. i actually went to Best Buy to get a 9600 Pro, but saw the 5700U instead. so i wont get HL2 for free. o well, i'll just buy it when it comes out.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    you misspelled comparing 110, doh! rofl you sux! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    106, if you read the review and don't get the impression that it's a rushed and shoddy job, well then you're just not a particularly smart or insightful person. which is ok, no one said you had to be. again, i'm camparing this to the old AT from 2,3,4 years ago. read some of the older reviews, and you'll see what i mean. or maybe you won't, whatever. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    that'd be earth 106. and you? thanks 108. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    #104 you mispelled the word fuck. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    ...nvidia sucks. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    #104, you're officially an idiot. AT didn't spend "much time"? What planet are you living on. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    Firingsquad has a decent image quality article up today. You can draw your own conclusion from the screen shots. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Monday, October 27, 2003 - link

    why does anandtech use these anonymous forums? it just encourages all of this nonsense. wtf are you yelling at eachother fanboy-this and fanboy-that? grow the fuk up.

    that said, i think anyone who has been a fan of AT (like myself) must be concerned with the recent nature of the graphics card reviews. i'm an owner of both nvidia and ati cards, and am too damn old to be a fanboy (maybe i'm a fanman). ATs recent reviews have been rubbish. I understand about trying to get info out in a timely fashion, but these reviews read like they were written the night before they were due (so to speak). i mean, if i were grading these as college papers or something, AT would get a D at best. i'm mostly comparing this to previous AT work, not other websites. i'm still an AT fan, i'm not goin anywhere.

    for some reason, the problems seem to be with the graphic card reviews more than anythng else. maybe because this is the most competetive market, and they have to pump it out ASAP.. it just feels like they're not giving much time to their reviews.

    the posters that have done the metrics on the review seem to have the right idea. specifically, it looks most like a tie to me, with 5700ultra being best in opengl situations, and 9600xt being best in other situations (ok, maybe that's not a tie :)
    the "TKO" conclusion certainly is baffling.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Sunday, October 26, 2003 - link

    Stop acting like a fanboy #102, you look stupider by the second. Oh, and I'd like to see you try to keep my mouth shut. Ahhh, too bad, the little geek has no control over the situation. lol Reply
  • Anonymous User - Sunday, October 26, 2003 - link

    Stop acting like a moron and coming to conclusions on your own. If you actually had a method to checks IPs, you would see that I only posted ONCE. (#96). Maybe other people posted more than once, but assuming that the 10 posts are only from one person is complete BS. Unless you have proof, keep your mouth shut. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Sunday, October 26, 2003 - link

    Please, #98 is right. Look at #'s 87-97; all of them were posted within an hour. Then look at the rest of the responses toward the end of this thread. Puhlease. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #98 just wanted to say that cause hes overwhelmed with how many people are posting with common sense. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #98 which one would that be? Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    LMAO! Some loser is posting messages pretending to be a different person each time! LOL, nice try, you were caught. Next time try changing your IP address, you look stupid. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    and these days you can easily find a ati 9700 for around $220ish

    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    Argh wtf.. this review is clearly biased. Very disappointing AT.. very..

    "The GeForce FX 5700 Ultra will be debuting at $199 after a mail in rebate. If $200 is your hard limit, and you need a midrange card right now, the 5700 Ultra is the way to go if you want solid frame rates."

    Its 200 dollars AFTER the rebate comes in the mail. If you only have money to buy a $200 card, how the hell are you suppose to buy a 5700? Don't know, don't care..

    Grrr.

    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #76
    How dare you say ATI driver performance is not up to NVidia's?

    After all that cheating fiasco, replacing shader code, IQ optimization, Clipping planes, program detection, etc etc etc.

    WAKE UP dammit.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #62

    60,000 and alone? Yet defending [A] on their crap?

    Now I understand why you live alone...even if you didn't want to it'll be hard to find a partner that can stand such a lame attitude.

    I agree on the part of doing some investigations before investing. Yet you contradict yourself if you see no IQ diferences....for the hardware you might be able to buy, you should see it miles away. I do in a cheapo 17" monitor.

    You should be investing more in your eyes man....
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #53

    No, it won't help, but for sure the website might GET A CLUE about what they are definitively not doing right.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #49

    There are no DX9 cards....They run it via a DX9 wrapper since the native DX9 in-hardware support sucks more than Jenna Jameson on a gang bang movie.

    Horror stories? Like that of Cat 3.8 burning up monitor crap? Give me a break you idiot, I can say the same crap against NV without any proof, yet I lost 2 GFMX with a real bug on Det 6.xx where the speed of the GPU and memory doubled once you got out of Standby mode. Get back to your sandbox kid.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    ""jesus, fanatics get all pissy if their card loses in FPS tests... you act like every consumer who reads this review will be swayed into believing that NV sells a superior midrange card... its obvious that the "ATI v NV" battle is personal to u... my only question is why? are you guys trying to justify your purchases by bashing something that poses a threat? personally, i dont let hardware sites choose what i buy... i often times purchase 2 contending cards, and take it upon myself to determine which is better... the winner stays in my machine, the loser goes back to where it came from...""



    My own personal reason is to save a few from lunatic flamers like you how post just rage instead of reason to support your standpoint.....pathetic.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    Yup. HE couldn't do anything about scores (inevitable), so he proceeded to take everything NVidia said for granted (as usual).

    That's like listening to OJ SImpson acussing everyone else of being a murderer.

    DOn't care if there were developers there...ALL HAD WAY BIGGER ISSUES with FX cards and said nothing, but to show a fe selected screenshots on TWIMTBP games, and everyone with some brains knows NVidia pushes for optimized code on that software and/or code that will not work right on the competition.....old news.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    "#19, I don't think it is a fanboy thing. It's an AT thing that's costing them their respect from other hardware sites and readers."


    Wiser words are yet to be spoken.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    Driver optimization in Assembly explanation is complete BS.
    Easy and nice to rearrange commands and to clean code, but NO INFO about reducing data from 24/32bit registers to 16 bit....give me a break. No IQ loss? They should change their 14" 45Hz monitors for something more up to date, and please, use LOOSELESS images at HIGH RESOLUTIONS if you dare to compare IQ....Beyond3D is definitively light years beyond you at this.

    The benchmark that's hurting NVidia more besides HL2 is of no use because of a "strange" crash. WTF? How other sites can do it? Can some one plz explain them how to install software properly?

    Fun to see how NVidia "completely dominates" when it wins by 2-3% but "it can take a punck to the chin" when is trailing by a similar number.

    TR was omitted, but they admit X2 runs like crap in FX, yet they put the scores in.

    For the last time...Gunmetal onla has 2 Vertex Shader 2.0 instructions....just to be called a DX9 test...thats all. PS are of 1.1 level.
    Aquamark just uses 4 PS 2.0...dunno about VS 2.0 if any.
    Now, Tomb Raider uses 12 PS 2.0. The game can be crappy but there are plenty used, yet that "starnge crash" wont allow people to see a future-proff scenario.



    ...should I go on?

    This is a big bunch of tree hugging hippie crap.
    [A] for sure will have a happy christmas...I wonder how much was it.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    #85 what do you prefer? do you prefer playing 1024x768 @ 60 fps or playing 1600x1200 +FSAA 8x/6x +AA 8x @ 19 fps? Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    Is it just me or could this massive 24 page review have been fit easily into about 10 pages. I spent more time clicking to get to the next page than actually reading the review. I guess that's one way to keep your page view numbers high if you can't provide a decent analysis of the product you are reviewing. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    LOL 83 you call other hardware sites IQ comparisons shoddy? Boy you have some mouth, go look at Anands IQ comparison in the high-end shootout. This pictures are tiny, compressed jpgs, they do NOT come in fullscreen versions, and most of them omit the ground! a part that should be required to see in any comparison. No wonder they didnt see any IQ problems, they couldnt even SEE Nvidias new filtering method because they dont even show the ground, where filtering IQ is most noticeable. Their Iq comparisons are complete BS and look like they are purposely trying to hide something from their users Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    ()_()
    ( ._.)‹^›
    ((")(")
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    I think this is hilarious,

    The day that a new graphics card comes out, one of the most REPUTABLE hardware review sites busts there ass to write an article about it and gets downplayed.

    They admit that their review is not a full review because there are other factors that they would like to invest more attention to and will release a part 2 at a later date. They go as far as to even say, "we still have more to come in the form of image quality analysis. Our findings in that arena will affect what we recommend just as much as pure speed." Which still seems unsatisfying.

    From what I've seen from EVERY other hardware review site, their IQ examples are shoddy at best (here's two images where one is f'd up, compare). A few of these posters are also much more versed in IQ technology than the rest of us (comments about trilinear filtering in a compiler setting) which is applauded and most likely the type of insight that AT will be devoting to there analysis on IQ.

    The majority of these posts, however, are nothing more than a chance for some immature limp dick computer junkie to get his rocks off by chastising one of the biggest names in hardware anonymously. I will continue to come this site and read the reviews, to learn about new technology and drool high performance electronics. And I will continue to read these comment boards, but mostly as a reminder of how pathetic some folks can be and to get a good laugh every once in awhile (still trying to get past Thomas Jefferson supporting Anal Fisting).

    -The Ways
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Saturday, October 25, 2003 - link

    The irregularities ATi's drivers allegedly display in AquaMark 3 and UT2003 require further investigation. Factors such as image quality, driver reliability, and compatibility are hard to convey in a review anyway.
    this is from tom
    so to al the ati lovers here go #"&' yourself
    a few weeks/months ago you guys said that nvidia cheated
    and now ati does you still have a big mouth
    no i am not an nvidia lover
    i am de performance lover ( for me ati maybe change with the nv 40) but you guys AAAARRRGGGGHHHH
    btw i havent read page 4 and 5 too busy
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Speaking of the Hardocp review. I did notice on the intial review at nvnews that their screen shot of Halo shows the blinking lights in the hallways that Hardocp said were not there. They are using the 5950 and the latest drivers, so it would seem one of the two sites made a booboo. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Excuse me, but if a review without an IQ comparions is ok, why even care about video cards at all? If image quality isn't important because yu cant really notice it in games, go buy yourself a geforce3 and knock yourself out, since it will play everything fine and you dont have to worry about image quality because you can even turn it up, how about that?

    And you dont need to zoom in anything to see Nvidia's new filtering method which is now, worse than ATI's. The bilinear filtering is ESPECIALLY noticeable in motion and causes the same kind of effect that aliasing does. Go look in the hardocp for yourself, especially in nascar and flight sim
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Wow. Anyone who whines about people demanding actual image quality comparisons is certainly NOT a gamer, or at least not one with decent hardware and eyes.

    I'll school all of your asses at UT and I'm damn sure not going to do it with dynamic detail reduction(TM), not for $200 or more.

    If the IQ differences between the cards are so minimal, why is it readily obvious when playing FS2004 and TR:AOD and UT2003 which card you're playing on? I'll tell you why:
    Because the ground textures on FS2004 look like crap, and trilinear filtering DOES NOT WORK AT ALL AFTER THE FIRST STAGE, REGARDLESS OF APPLICATION OR DRIVER CONTROL SETTINGS in D3D with the FX family.
    Instead, we get slightly improved bilinear that looks visually inferior to trilinear by a mile.

    And you know what?
    It's a lot EASIER to see WHEN YOU"RE PLAYING THE GAME, because the texture 'horizon' is always moving.
    Not that anyone who's fawning over AT would know. An FX5200 ain't gonna show you son.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    watchu' talkin'bout willis?!

    watchu' talkin'bout willis?!

    watchu' talkin'bout willis?!



    Reply
  • WooDaddy - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    #62, Live, I agree.

    Derek, thanks for the review. I really liked the fact that the Ti4200 was included. REALLY helpful. I think I can hold out for a while. If not, the ATI 9700PRO will be considered.
    Reply
  • Jeff7181 - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Ok... I checked out the other reviews... and HardOCP's results differ from AT's... but Tom's look pretty much the same.
    AT did come up with a different conclusion though, saying the FX5700 is a better buy than the 9600XT. And I agree. I know many of you will get your shorts in a knot about this, but ATI's driver quality still isn't up to par with nVidia's. A friend of mine has had nothing but trouble getting his 9800 Pro to work correctly.
    In my opinion, ATI will have to take a hefty lead in the performance area to make up for the driver problems to get their card into my rig.
    Reply
  • Jeff7181 - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    I'll have to take a look at the reviews by other sites... but personally, on my Aopen FX5900 @ 490/950, everything looks great. The quality is better than the 45.23's in my opinion. Taking a look at a still picture that is blown up 400X to compare individual pixels is stupid. What might look worse pixel per pixel may look better at normal size, frame by frame. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    ok..5700ultra seems fine... but i bought 5600ultra 1-2 months ago... what will happen to me... ????
    :(
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    i think we need a butt pirate joke right about now Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    these anonymous forusm are always a hoot. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Derek takes it in the pooper Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    #62 making 60k a year is still below the threshhold of being able to spend money on whatever you want and not giving a f&5k....if you made 1mil a year I highly doubt you wouldn't drop the $500 on the best card without thinking twice. So don't call other's dumb for buying video cards...maybe that's how they want to spend their money....If you saved some trips to the "Blue Oyster" I'm sure you'd have a $500 card as well. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    The message is damn clear, nvidia is using DDR2 memory to fill in the performance gaps.. Nvidia shuckhs! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    doesnt anon mean something in french?

    Reply
  • Live - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Anon postings should be disabled. If people dont have the energy to register the energy awarded to there post is likely to be the same minimal amount. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    #64, that makes perfect sense, just don't visit AnandTech. After all, it's not like you've just given them a page impression. lol

    Seriously, AnandTech will never lose readers or respect as long as they keep doing what they're doing. The critics here that break down every minute detail about what this review did "wrong" aren't gamers. If they were, they would realize that the IQ "differences" are so minuscule it's like trying to argue that nForce2 is incredibly faster than KT600, when the reality is that nForce2's attractiveness comes from its superior sound (APU), overclockability, and stability, most certainly not its “earth shattering” performance. nForce2’s better performance is simply a bonus to any half-intelligent hardware enthusiast, not its main selling point.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    watchu' talkin'bout willis?! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    Look, some of us see that these reviews seem to no longer reflect reality. What to do? Quit visiting the site, quit giving AT page impressions. Find reviews elsewhere; god knows there are enough other hardware sites to choose from. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    stop crying about the IQ. as #62 said "ESPECIALLY fps games where constant movement makes it almost impossible to notice the IQ differences". i would add - the difference between fx5950u and radeon 9800XT.

    i spent about 1/3 of the last 10 years playing games. i can call myself a GAMER. i want to play my games at at least 55-60 FPS and nothing else matters. i got radeon 9600pro. that's what i can affort. if fx5600u was faster i would've got it instead. brand doesn't matter if i got 60FPS at 1024x768.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Friday, October 24, 2003 - link

    #57, don't comment on something you literally have no clue about. I make $60,000 a year and I live alone and really have no expenses to speak of, so I have plenty of money to spend hardware. I'm just finally savvy and am not one of those blind dolts who doesn't research his hardware and makes impulse purchases. I would have thought your high school teachers would have taught that to you last year.

    #59, I'm questioning the point of buying a $500 video card, period. More to the point though, I'm questioning people's over-analyization (hum, not a word I guess, you get the point though) of IQ in games, ESPECIALLY fps games where constant movement makes it almost impossible to notice the IQ differences you are seeing between NVIDIA and ATI cards with the latest drivers right now. Even more to the point, you need a high quality monitor IN ADDITION to that high-end video card to make the purchase worthwhile. When all is said and done, you could be spending $700 on just your monitor + video, and easily as high as $1000. Unless you play games 24/7 and are unemployed, you need to rethink your video card purchases.

    And what planet have you been on? AnandTech has written like 50 reviews the last two months, the majority of them 10+ page in depth articles on the latest hardware. Heck, AT is more than likely making money hand over fist. What do you know, except that the video fanatics with no credentials to speak of are claiming AnandTech has "gone down hill". LMAO, right!
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Well I do not see how the review data supports his conclusions. And I also question the point of a review without any IQ testing but on a lighter not.

    You notice how NVIDIA drivers are now called FORCEWARE, thats because they force you to use the trilinear filtering they want, not what you want.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Given the detail reductions seen in the IQ analyses of the sites that have done them, the trend is becoming alarmingly clear - at least until the NV40 arrives, nvidia will not stop optmizations that reduce IQ in favor of speed. This is not a necessary result of the NV3X architecture, but a result of the quality of the competitor's product.

    The glaring lack of trilinear filtering in stages 2+ of all the FXes, and the inferior antialiasing quality gives one pause to even compare similar settings between the cards. The "good enough except to everyone else" FP16 modes continue, and real-time HDR lighting at FP16 or lower (FX12) shows obvious banding.
    Therefore, pronouncing a winner at a high price ($0.5K!) level without IQ analysis and basing the judgement on absolute frame rates (without intentionally decreasing the output quality of the competition to make the IQ directly comparable), is simply sad.

    Adieu anandtech, adieu!
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #56 If youre dumb enough to spend 500 bucks on a video card and not care about IQ you're wasting your money

    And who said Anand has ever been reputable? They haven't been doing too well lately
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    i just saw a add for ati i guess #10 is wrong Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #56 just because I can afford a $500 graphics card and still have money to afford everything else i want, doesn't mean I'm dumb. Maybe your "dumb" because you can't find a job that pays enough to have that luxury. Sux to be you.... Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Yikes, the video card fanboys, that aren't gamers in the first place, come full force with the criticisms. It doesn't get any more pathetic than a video fanatic that doesn't actually play any or even some of the games AnandTech used and still criticizes this review based on the total over-analysis that is Beyond3D. Though B3D does a through job and that should always be commended.

    And WTH, since when has [H] ever been reputable? Why do you think one of their editors left just recently? Kyle doesn't know jack about GPU, video architecture, or pretty much anything else besides what he picked up from his years of hands-on experience. Actually, this is a good thing in a way, because Kyle (and Brent, etc.) write reviews from a gamers' perspective. Still, the over-analysis of IQ is getting ridiculous. If you're dumb enough to spend $500 on a video card in the first place, you don't deserve IQ analysis.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #53/54: You each have a respective product that you enjoy, that doesn't give you free reign to lord minor victories for your preferred product over everyone else or whine that whenever a benchmark doesn't go your way that the competitor is cheating or lying or optimizing or buying a victory with ads.
    Overall, nVidia and ATI really don't care what you think about them, as long as they're making money off of you; I agree that both companies should be chastised for their optimizing of their drivers, but neither is doing anything that others haven't done in the past. You just haven't noticed it until someone started slinging mud in order to try and gain more market share (ATI). I really wish ATI had shut their pieholes about the "cheats", since now everyone and their mother is throwing accusations of cheating in their competitor's drivers as soon as the competition wins a benchmark or takes performance lead in an application.
    Utterly terrible. Fanboys, stop your engines, for you're just spinning your wheels. Go get a job with this newfound free time and buy more products from the companies you so vehemently support over the Intarweb 2.0, so that we may see better products sooner rather than later.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    that comment just shows that you are just as childish as the rest of them #53 Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    awww boo hooo

    ati fanboys getting pissed? criticizing every site that doesn't agree with you is not going to help your credibility you know.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    All I can say is good-bye and good riddance to Anandtech. HardOCP cleaned up their act. It's time for a house cleaning here.

    Delete ...
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Alrighty, #7 I really hope that you don't trust those numbers you posted and would discount anything of that nature as pure BS after seeing the graphs.

    (e.g. Some of the differences in the performance of all the cards was less than 10 percent on many of the DX8 test, and your percentages are incredibly ludicris...I dunno, maybe your ATI renders funny graphs)

    The point is that nVidia has finally released a card that is competitive and in some cases superior to other technology. Derek isn't saying "nVidia wins", but more like "nVidia is finally starting to come around." The Final Word comments are strictly by his experience, do you have one of these cards? will your opinion of the IQ differ from mine?

    I think the greatest comment and truest is the one posted in all of the latest graphix card articles: "Wait until your game comes out to buy a new card". It seems like all the lemmings out there are so anxious to throw away there money to have the fastest thing on the market that they seriously get their feelings hurt by the prospect that what they want may not be the best. As an nVidiot myself, I am glad to see the Geforce line of cards starting to come around and admit that the Radeon 9700 Pro is definitely the greatest piece of hardware created since the Geforce 3 quite a few years ago. I am glad both companies are staying competitive, but will always root for my favorite team.

    Make no mistake, fuzzy math is about as logical as strategery. And some of you guys really need a life.

    -The Ways
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #49, i hate to tell you but basically all optimizations and new filtering methods only apply to FX cards Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    The message is clear--
    Oh, wait, it's not. I personally like nVidia's products, and am leery to jump to ATI, because I've heard lots of horror stories about the Cats completely screwing up a system. Yeah, I know that the Dets are supposed to be "Cheatenators" if you listen to fanATIcs, but I haven't had any complaints about my gameplaying using my overclocked Ti4200 in Halo, UT2k3, or Max Payne 2...
    I'm glad to see nVidia pushing out a decent DX9 midrange card, but I'm not glad to see it not taking the performance crown and almost LOSING to a card that's a full generation behind it in API support!! Not to mention that the 5700 will be obsolete and pretty much bargain basement by the time the games that matter in DX9 come out, like HL2 and Doom3...
    So, the message is NOT clear. The winner remains to be seen, because this review is not finished, nor is the 5700 the last card nVidia's ever going to make. When we see NV40 and R420, then we can talk about the message being clear. Until then, it's all very fuzzy and dependant on which company you trust more... Well, that and how cheap the card is. :P
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Did anyone else notice in the Nvidia PDF that the Det 50's offer AMD64 support? This sounds to me like it can work in a 64bit operating system. Am I wrong about this? It says it on page 19 of the PDF. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #45 it would be simple. when you click on an image to compare, just make the images pop-up in a little box, kind of like this comments box.

    also, maybe instead of making a conclusion at the end of the review, it might have been better to say "to be continued" or something like that.

    i kind of agree with what others are saying, how can you recommend something if you have only run half the tests so far...? seems like the conclusion came a little premature...

    what happens if ati comes out on top in the 2nd round of iq tests?

    will the recommendation get flip-flopped?




    Reply
  • sandorski - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    It's nice to see Nvidia competing on performance again. However, these visual anomalies and jerkiness gives pause.

    Re Final Word: It seems rather odd that such statements would be made after the first part of a 2 part review, especially when the first part brings up some potentially serious issues that the second part will examine further.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #43

    uhm... tell me how Derek can do that? when the screen real estate is obviously taken over by those funky ads ;) No way! sponsors first! they paid for that space. We just have to learn to squint. those graphs look colorful though, i might add.

    even if the game stutters when i play or i see artifacts i will sure be reminded by those graphs and continue to be inpired. wooohoooooooooooo!
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    The 5900 non-ultra at $220 looks like a better deal.

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?descript...
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    I don't think it's right to make any recommendation unless IQ and Framerates are taken into consideration. And not the little bitty screenshots that I had to squint at from the last review.

    Derek, it would help if you made the screencaps larger, and made them animated so that the differences could be seen. For instance, someone put the images you used for that F1 Racer sim in a gif. Looking at the images side by side for the 51.xx drivers, the 45.xx drivers, and the ATI 3.7 drivers, I couldn't see a difference.

    However, once the animated graphic was made, the difference was EXTREMELY apparent that the 3.7 and 45.xx drivers were heads above the 51.xx drivers. Yet in your conclusion you said that there were no palpable differences between the graphics.

    I think what people are trying to say is that you guys can do better than this, and we expect that from you. I know I certainly do.

    Regards,

    Long time AT reader
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    The review at Extreme Tech lines up with Anadtechs review. Both on FPS and IQ. Im still checking out other reviews on other sites though. So far it seems to me that there anrt any worthy problems with AT's review. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    It's so sad that when ATi might have real competition in the midrange, the fanATIcs are still out in full force, labeling any site that doesn't trash nVidia as "biased" and "bought".

    And when in the blue hell has having an ad from a company meant the site is biased? THG, for example, has AMD, Intel, ATi, nVidia, and XGI ads on its pages. Ads are how sites make money.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Some of you guys have to get out more. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    face fact girls who keep complaining. from what i see, both ati and nvidia both make great cards. buy whichever suits your needs. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Whats going on with that Ti4200 on homeworld 2!!!! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    jesus, fanatics get all pissy if their card loses in FPS tests... you act like every consumer who reads this review will be swayed into believing that NV sells a superior midrange card... its obvious that the "ATI v NV" battle is personal to u... my only question is why? are you guys trying to justify your purchases by bashing something that poses a threat? personally, i dont let hardware sites choose what i buy... i often times purchase 2 contending cards, and take it upon myself to determine which is better... the winner stays in my machine, the loser goes back to where it came from... Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Kyle is just pissed he didnt get invited to NVIDIA's editorial day (or he didnt get paid enough to go to Editorial Day), while NVIDIA probably just canceled an advertisement deal with Tom. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #10: ATI ads are in the same article on the right sidE!!!! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Well I am going to read the 5950 review in this site. If the comments section will be this lame, that will be my last...

    Sorry, but the gfx card reviews are getting worse and worse in each review.. No in depth analysis, no IQ comparisons.. At the end, given the frame rates, I still believe that 9600XT is a better card than 5700 given that that card has almost %60 of the bandwidth that 5700 has and still beats it in most of the AA tests.

    I appreciate the amount of work here, but if you can not do it right, that do not do it..

    Best,
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #28 sorry but i was in a big hurry. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #7, way to go! that's some hard numbers you got there. now that's what I call objective analysis! i agree with #12 and #14 as well.

    this review IMHO has been very subjective. even if they mentioned they would follow up with image quality reviews, it may be too late because "simple minded" individuals looking only for frame rate numbers may have already been influenced in their graphics card future buying decisions.

    ..and people, listen up! if you disagree with the site reviews then don't visit them and don't recommend them to friends. that way they get less hits and vendors leave them, and they die sooner or later. if we keep on visiting their sites even with good or bad intentions, they get hit counts and people see their rotating ads. that's how web site businesses operates now and a way for them to generate income. money talks in the hardware and technology business.

    let's not keep debating or bashing each other for this. haven't you noticed they are playing us all like fools. I pity the people who will believe these reviews without really evaluating them.

    so again, vote with your wallet! i'm no fanboy and i will always evaluate and buy the best product i see out there.

    tech reviewers please be responsible! you got big in the first place because the community supports you. you owe it to them. you start without ads at first, people come and now you see "hits" coming you see an oppurtunity to generate income then you confuse us with your AD BLOATED web sites and BIASED reviews.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    I agree with everyone about the conclusion not making much sense. And what is the price before rebate? Ya know...the money I ACTUALLY HAVE TO HAND OVER? Rebates are sometimes(not all the time) a risky business. Who is honoring these rebates? Why wasnt this mentioed? Thats rather odd.

    If there is a rebate involved im assuming that the card must be $250. If this is the case then the 9700pro is the same price. So actually....If your going to shell out $250, just get a 9700pro and forget about the stupid rebate =)

    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    This is a FACT. Its not an excuse...its just a fact that im putting out.

    To be 100% unbiased is NOT human.

    So the boys at anandtech tend to lean towards Nvidia alittle more then ATI...maybe 55-45, dont get made about it though...just take what they say with a grain of salt =)
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    i tought that tom pointed ati as the cheater Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #24 You should try taking English 101...it might help you a bit :) Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    This IQ comparison better not be like the last one. If every other site gives me full uncompressed screenshots and shows me Nvidia filtering issues, anandtech better show me too if they dont want to lose respect Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    I like AnandTech, and respect their reviews. I agree the conclusion doesn't match the test results, but the conclusion is also subjective to actually using the device reviewed.

    Besides, HardOCP is way more biased than Anand or Tom's, it's just that their bias changes based on Kyle's latest whim.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    If the IQ testing for this card is the same as the last IQ article, no thanks. Let's hope they put more effort into actually showing the obvious differences that were passed up last time. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    ej guys 9or better ati fans) if derek made this review besides posting the numbers he probably saw the image quality. all you knows perfectly whose the best driver writer. and it's been so seen i got my first tnt. but anyways it is obvious that some games work better on ati's card somework better on nvidia. in xbitlabs forum yesterday one guy had posted after he upgrated his GF3 to radeon 9800 pro he started experiencing quality promblems. so don't bitch about the quality it all dipends on the test suit.
    it was the same situation with the reviews of fx-51 and pentium EE. every single review gontradict to another.
    btw those of you trade better start buying nvidia'a stocks.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #10, The ads rotate. I just saw two different ATI ads on the same page. Keep trying! Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    it seems toms review puts into question ati's optimizations moreso than nvidia's image quality
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    In any case,.....it's another round of new card releases and hopefully cheaper prices around for the
    "older" models.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #19, I don't think it is a fanboy thing. It's an AT thing that's costing them their respect from other hardware sites and readers. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    ati fanboys above dont look to happy :) Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    # 15, If someone writes a crappy review then he deserves all the problems and flak the come with it. Reply
  • gordon151 - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #14, "The GeForce FX 5700 Ultra will be debuting at $199 after a mail in rebate. If $200 is your hard limit, and you need a midrange card right now, the 5700 Ultra is the way to go if you want ****solid frame rates****." Now you could say they dodged the image quality bullet on that comment, but that's really the only recommendation they made on the 5700 Ultra.

    When the new article comes out and they do an image quality analysis, if their findings are similar to that of HardOCP and TomsHardware the conclusion will be something similar to "5700 Ultra still for solid frame rates and 9600 XT for solid frame rates *AND* image quality".

    BTW Derek I don't believe was even at the press event, that was Anand. Derek is the sole author of this article it seems and unlike Toms and HardOCP he didn't have any direct aide from other staff.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #13,

    No, we don't need to bitch at every AT review. But when the conclusion CONTRADICTS the very data he supplies us, then something is seriously wrong. Wouldn't you say?
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    #14, if anyone buys an expensive video card based on 1 review from 1 tech site, they deserve the problems that could come with it.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    The review crowned a new midrange segment winner without dealing with image quality. What are they going to do, retract that later after their image tests? What about the people that bought the cards based on their review - and then they find out the cards have image quality problems?

    Other sites in the past when they discovered issues waited until they had done further testing before coming out with any review. Perhaps anandtech should have followed hardocp's lead, and instead of partying it up and brown-nosing at nvidia press events they should have been doing their image tests so they could put out a full review.
    Reply
  • gordon151 - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Do we seriously need the comments crying for the authors head with *EVERY* review? They already said they were working on an article which will do a study on the image quality tests and will be posted laters. This review will clearly stress the numbers and that's where they draw conclusions. Damn, give them a frigging break. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Ever hear of journalistic integrity? He has a responsibility to be objective. He replies "also, there were no glaringly unplayable image quality issues on either side of the line."

    What a political answer - glaringly unplayable image quality issues? A $499 card shouldn't have any unplayable issues, heck even a $99 card should be playable.

    He's dodging the issue about playable image quality issues - missing or lower quality lighting effects for example. The point is that Nvidia has been caught lowering imager quality - removing the eye candy you are paying for in dx9 cards, and they have continued to do so.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Once again "IQ to come in part 2"... mebbe they will ... mebbe they won't... but they don't have a very good track record so far... and what is up with that choice of games? Go read the [H]OCP review... I may have been vocal against [H] in the past but there review of teh 5700 and 5950 is spot on with worthwhile gaming results.....

    I really fail to see how you recommend 5700 over 9600pro in this.... and skip all the NV 'driver bugs' too.... ah well nm... another nail in the AT coffin....
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Hrmm, I see an NVida add on the top right of my screen. Ever see ATI adds ant anandtech? Know what complementary copy is? Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Here's my conclusion: if you're gonna bitch and moan, read a different tech site. No one's forcing you to accept Derek's conclusions.

    I think some of you need to be a little more respectful with your comments and suggestions.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    How can any conclusions be made without an image quality comparison. The "final words" section is based purely on the framerate numbers? How can you even draw a conclusion? Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    I'll just copy this from what I wrote at Beyond 3D:

    I was so confused by this comment from AT:

    AnandTech wrote: "In fact, NVIDIA has flipped the tables on ATI in the midrange segment and takes the performance crown with a late round TKO. It was a hard fought battle with many ties, but in the games where the NV36 based card took the performance lead, it lead with the style of a higher end card."


    That I tabulated my own results:

    NON AA
    ---------
    5700 wins 10 times
    9600 XT wins 6

    Where the 5700 won, it won on average by 15%
    Where the 9600 won, it won on average by 17%


    WITH AA / ANISO
    ---------
    5700 wins 6 times
    9600 wins 6 times

    Where the 5700 won, it won on average by 23%
    Where the 9600 won, it won on average by 54%

    There certainly is ZERO justification for saying something like: "but in the games where the NV36 based card took the performance lead, it lead with the style of a higher end card."

    That characteristic belongs to ATI, not nVidia.

    Another way to look at it: What percentage FPS difference is required to declare a "clear winner?"

    Let's say that less than 10% difference, the cards are tied. In this case:

    NO AA/ANISO
    ----------------

    5700 wins 6 tests
    9600 wins 4 tests

    When the 5700 wins, it's by an average of 22%
    When the 9600 wins, it's by an average of 22%

    With AA/Aniso
    ----------------
    5700 wins 4 tests
    9600 wins 6 tests

    When the 5700 wins, it's by an average of 33%
    When the 9600 wins, it's by an average of 54%


    I wish Anand's conclusions would actually agree with his data.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Hello? where are the hardware, software, and driver specs? Editorial review? What's that? Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Separating Image Quality results from the review is completely misleading. Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    It's not unplayable image quality errors - the pics in the hardocp review show missing graphical features to enhance your gaming - ie walls with computers on them with nvidia with no blinking lights, on the ati it had purple and green blinking lights - yes playable on both - but when you pay $499 you want to see the game the way it was intended by the programmers. Same goes for the flashlight pics on hardocp , nvidia the flashlight beam is a mess, ati the flashlight beam is perfectly round like a real flashlight.

    Just another case of nvidia removing graphical effects to speed up their cards to compete with ati.
    Reply
  • DerekWilson - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    so, the cheapest 9800 Pro I see on new egg is a refurb for 280...

    also, there were no glaringly unplayable image quality issues on either side of the line.

    give us a chance to get everything we want to get done done wrt image quality. We've got a lot planned.
    Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Anand reviews are complete BS. Hardocp and even Tomshardware show the exact opposite of everything this review says. And as for the IQ comparison, complete and utter bullshit. Hardocp found visual differences in just about EVERY game out there, and actually gave FULLSCREEN UNCOMPRESSED screenshots, unlike Anand's tiny jpg's that didnt even include any information about filtering quality, none of them included the ground! GJ Anand, next time when you tell me there is no image quality differences, show me fullscreen shots of EVERY game Reply
  • Anonymous User - Thursday, October 23, 2003 - link

    Nvidia still cheating via lowering image quality/effects - why are you selling out and not at least letting your readers know about it now? Check out some of the image quality cheats in hardocp's review - very lame nvidia. Reply

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