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  • skiboysteve - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Sad Reply
  • Sarah Terra - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I'd say smart. If they sell these companies now while the firm is healthy they can get market value, instead of fire sale prices when the firm is dying, but to be frank imagination is done and I don't see them coming back from this. I'm sure there are greedy investors already taking steps to put the squeeze on imagination to weaken thier selling position with an ultimate goal of picking up the company and its IP for as cheap as possible. Suing Apple will be the return on this investment Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    ...which is why it's sad :(. Assuming MIPS was profitable, it's selling the family silver. Reply
  • Computer Bottleneck - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    How about Imagination making low profile single slot display and media cards for surplus desktops or desktops that don't come with iGPU? Reply
  • HomeworldFound - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    That's not a solution at all. Suicide. Reply
  • erwos - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    You mean like Matrox used to do? They'd be better off just selling their GPU assets and returning the money to the investors. Reply
  • Speedfriend - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Rule number 1 in business - don't be an Apple supplier, the greedy bastards will screw you at some point, no matter how big you are.... Reply
  • jordanclock - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Really? Rule #1 for business is don't be a supplier for one of the largest companies in the world? Reply
  • beginner99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    He has a point. The more important one being: Never make your company depend on 1 single customer. Any such deal must be declined. If you found your own business, you get 1 big contract from a largish company and then they can just fuck you over by not paying because you can't do anything against it as you will be bankrupt and can't afford a lawyer.

    That is whats happening here just on a much larger scale. Asshole move by apple but it will play out. They will either buy them for cheap or just go to court and wait till they are bankrupt and buy them even cheaper. Imagination can't do anything about this and their won't be magic new business saving them.
    Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    The fact is that Apple has one of the largest R&D centers in the world. We all know they been developing chips for 30 years. It's not as though this is all new to them. And with Apple developing more chips as time goes on, this shouldn't be unexpected.

    They bought at least two GPU design firms over the years, and have a fair number of graphics patents they've developed themselves. So again, this shouldn't be unexpected. And with them developing more of the graphics engines themselves, Imagination should have realized that Apple was moving further away over the past two or three years. They have no one to blame other than themselves.

    It's also interesting that they are doing the exact opposite of what they attempted to do when buying MIPS, though they own none of these patents, but license them. So while trying to diversify, partly because Apple had such a large part of their business, and because they largely failed to get another customer base for it, they found it harder than they thought.

    So now they're doing what a lot of other companies did before they failed. Sell off their acquisitions. They SAY they are doing ok, so there is value there. But this really makes little sense to me. If they are doing ok, and they will be losing 69% of their graphics business, then really, what will they have left?

    Do they actually think that Apple leaving them is going to be a sign to others that this is a good time to use their IP? Somehow, I don't think so. Since licensing their graphic IP has failed, other than to Apple, where will they be going from here without diversification?

    I've seen all of this a number of times before. It always ends in failure.

    So another thought. Imagination had put themselves on the block, effectively, last year, mostly hoping Apple would bite, but they didn't. I imagine that part of the reason was because Apple was already planning to leave. But also partly because Imagination had business that Apple didn't want, such as MIPS, etc. Those are the parts Imagination is now parting with.

    So perhaps this is another attempt by them to get Apple interested in buying them at a lower price, without the business apple wouldn't want, and with some cash. Clever, if it works, because I just don't see them surviving Apple's loss.

    And really folks, this isn't an unfair move by Apple. All companies need to do what's best for them, and not for anyone else. It's even possible that some day, they will move away from ARM as well.
    Reply
  • name99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Mayhew's Law: "Anyone who turns down an important deal because of price, will end up doing the same deal at a worse price".

    https://twitter.com/dsquareddigest/status/78161327...
    Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    We saw that with Good technologies. They put their company on the block. They got an offer for almost $1.2 billion, but turned it down because the CEO said the company was worth more. Last year, Blackberry bought it for $600 million.

    When you look at the small sales numbers of Imagination, and their asking price, you see that their heads were in the air. In order for Apple to have bought the company, they would have had to do things that would have made the company worth far less.

    So, Imagination is now doing some of them. They're selling off everything they bought to diversify, things that would make no sense for Apple to have. But Apple would need to cut the other customers loose too. So the only income that Imagination would have was the 69% of the graphics licensing. So the graphics licensing was about 70% of the company's total sales. Of that Apple had about 50% of the company's total sales, most of the graphics revenue - 69%.

    So after selling all of the stuff they bought, and getting rid of the other customers, what would be left? Well, a fraction of what the company was before, Apple's business would be all, is there any surprise Apple didn't accede to their price demand?

    So, at their high , they were worth $960 million. That's awful high for a company whose highest sales were in 2014, at $170 million, with a slight loss. Now, it's even crazier. Last year's sales were down to $120 million, and they had an $80 million loss. How are they worth anything near $960 million? And this was before Apple told them they were leaving, and the stock dropped by more than half.

    Normally, a company sells for close to a 30% premium to their current worth at the time of the offering. But that assumes the company is doing well. Imagination was, and is, NOT doing well. There was no way Apple would, or should have, paid a $ billion for this wreck. Maybe they were actually worth $200 million - maybe.

    The fact is that they can't survive without Apple's revenue, unless someone else buys them. Currently, they are "worth" about $400 million, and I don't know why.
    Reply
  • Chillin1248 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I just wanted to say, that this was one of the most intelligent comments I have every read on this site. Kudos! Reply
  • Alexvrb - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    If this was a conventional business in say, manufacturing, you'd be right. They have value far above their balance sheets. Why? Because other tech firms value their IP. They're refocusing on their GPU designs, which is probably the best decision they could make in their position. If they can release great new designs (again) and win contracts, they may succeed. If they fail, someone will snap them up for more than what YOU think they're worth at the time, because of their IP. QC, Sammy, etc would all be interested... Apple might even do it for the right price just to protect themselves from future lawsuits. Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    The problem is that what you're saying isn't correct. Apple is 70% of their graphics business. Didn't you read that? Despite their attempts, over the past few years, to get more customers for their graphics designs, they've failed. In fact, except for Apple almost none of their other customers are licensing their higher end products.

    So how are they going to convince their other current customers, and those not customers, to license their high end designs, where they make more money, or to even continue licensing any of their designs?

    And they aren't "refocusing" on their GPU designs. That's been the main focus of the company even after their acquisitions. But now, they'll have far less funds to spend on R&D.

    And, if some company does pick them up after the stock falls further, then they're gone anyway.

    Really, I read things people write about "all they have to do is...". Well, if that's all they had to do, they would have done it already. You're comments aren't based on reality.
    Reply
  • Alexvrb - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    You clearly did not read my post. I never said "all they had to do is X". I said that IF they can release great new designs and win contracts, they MAY succeed. Either way it's clear you don't understand why they're selling their other divisions. The company currently splits its R&D resources across multiple divisions. If they manage to sell those non-core businesses they'll have an influx of cash and will be able to devote their entire R&D efforts on graphics. It's a gamble, but given the loss of Apple's business if they do nothing they will eventually fail by default. They have to try. If you comprehend nothing else, comprehend that. Also their MIPS SoCs are a competitor to ARM designs. It's a lot easier to convince ARM manufacturers to use your GPU IP if you're not competing with them in other sectors.

    Either way they're still worth more than you believe, I'm frightfully sorry you don't understand the value of tech IP.
    Reply
  • trab - Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - link

    GPU design cycles last years. That cash influx needs to keep R&D afloat long enough to get new designs out for 2020/21. In the mean time to generate new income they NEED new contracts to fill that void. IP licensing is probably not going to fill the shortfall to the the bottom line. Going after the Chinese phone makers might help. Reply
  • Lolimaster - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    They were probably charging a "lets be apple" type of pricing for their more powerfull designs. That's why we only saw cheapo socs with powervr gpu on some mediatek phones/tablets before mediatek switched to ARM own's mali gpu. Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    That's a bit harsh. Imagination's IP hasn't gone anywhere and it still has value. If they don't get bought by Apple they still have Furian, and who's to say that won't sell? Reply
  • philehidiot - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    I think this is a very good analysis. I can not understand why you would go down the route of selling your plan B in this situation if it was even barely profitable on it's own. This firm will be cut up into it's various IPs and sold at auction, likely by liquidators. Their only route to success is to create amazing new IP that everyone wants but you can bet that the best people who are most likely to do this are already looking for new work / being poached. Reply
  • philehidiot - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    I think this is a very good analysis. I can not understand why you would go down the route of selling your plan B in this situation if it was even barely profitable on it's own. This firm will be cut up into it's various IPs and sold at auction, likely by liquidators. Their only route to success is to create amazing new IP that everyone wants but you can bet that the best people who are most likely to do this are already looking for new work / being poached. Reply
  • Ananke - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Apple, and Amazon.. and many more, always twist the agreements to push you into more dependability, so they become your only major customer. It is a tendency in the last decade. eventually, they will screw you majorly and you'll be forced into bankruptcy, selling them whatever they need - in this case most likely Imagination Tech is getting prepared to be acquired by Apple and become their GPU department, and now they simply strip away whatever Apple doesn't want to purchase Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    Excuse me, but that's not true. These small companies benefit from a very large company like Apple. But if they don't take advantage of it, it's their fault.

    Apple is responsible for making them a much larger company than they were. Then, it was up to them to convince other companies that Apple as a customer, a customer with SoCs that are far more advanced than any other. Was a good reason why they should use their technology as well.

    But it didn't work. In fact, just look at their sales. While apple's licensing g fees remained about the same, or actually increased, their sales went from $170 million in 2014, with a slight loss, to $120 million end if 2o16, with an $80 million loss. About half that loss is attributed to one time expenses relating to purchases, etc. But they lost a lot of other business during those two years.

    It's why they offered to sell to Apple. I suppose they felt that if more business left, almost everything would be Apple anyway. But $960 million was far too high for a $120 million company with large losses. It made no sense. As a public company, they couldn't make an offer that was less Than their market value, even if it were overinflated. Shareho,dears, which includes other companies, remember, would complain if the sale weren't over current market value. So they were in a bind.

    Anyway, their future looks limited. And, sure, I've been saying that despite what they are saying publicly about what they're doing, they are possibly trying to look more attractive to Apple, if not others. But their valuation needs to come down to somewhere what they're really worth. With Apple gone, and the rest of the businesses gone, they're business could drop $50 million a year, or less.what are they worth then if they're losing money? Many companies are worth less than their annual sales, even when they making a profit . Too many tech companies are getting away with murder here.
    Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Only turn down such a big deal if it crowds out your ability to serve other customers. If it does, you've got bigger problems (your business processes don't scale). Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    Well, with Apple, they had far more money for R&D and marketing. Why didn't they succeed in getting more customers? It's hard to know. Usually when a very large, and advanced company validates t]your technology and product, other companies are attracted as well. But that didn't seem to work for them. Maybe they were asking too much in licensing fees. Reply
  • Lolimaster - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    Your last sentence is the answer.

    "We won't give you peasant android soc prices, we are and apple provider, we're better than them".
    Reply
  • Lolimaster - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    You grow and totally depent on them, they leave you, you can't even pay the overgrown salaries. Reply
  • osxandwindows - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    So you're every company should money on the table.

    Thank god you don't run a compnay.
    Reply
  • osxandwindows - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    So you think a company should leave money on the table? wow. Thank god you don't run a company.

    Hint, when Apple went to TSMC samsung did not go down.
    Why? because they did not depend on a single customer.
    Reply
  • name99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    We have ABSOLUTELY no idea what happened in this case.

    For all we know, Apple has been trying for years to get Imagination to go in a certain direction ("We really want to transition from a generic GPU to something that's more a throughput engine, like Xeon Phi" for example) and Imagination kept saying "we've been in this business longer than you. Trust us, we know the market".
    For all we know Apple gave them a perfectly reasonable takeover offer and Imagination refused, under a deluded belief that they were worth more.

    Given that we don't know anything, insisting on who's to blame seems premature.
    The one fact we do know is that Imagination bought MIPS, and seems (as far as I can tell) unable to have made a success of it, which suggests to me that they are deluded about either the market or their particular skills and business prowess. Which leads back to my second paragraph...
    Reply
  • jjj - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Getting rid of the fat so they can sell themselves. Reply
  • psychobriggsy - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I guess so.

    MIPS to Broadcom or a Chinese company.
    Themselves to a current PowerVR licensee, maybe Samsung who'll want an in-house GPU function now that Apple have it.
    Reply
  • jjj - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    MIPS to China might get regulators upset. MIPS won't be easy to sell now in the Risk-V era.
    GPU to China would work. Tsinghua Unigroup already owns a small stake but maybe Huawei could have a go at it too since it's pretty cheap.
    Reply
  • invinciblegod - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Why would regulators get upset? Arm is already much larger than mips. Reply
  • fafa1971 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    MIPS wasn't acquired for $60M as stated in the article, albeit that was the original intent. They entered a bidding war with Ceva, and the IMG final winning bid was $100M.

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/imagination-steps-up-...
    Reply
  • mapesdhs - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Please typo/grammar check before making articles live; this one has a few howlers. ;) Intrigued to know what effect a "significant hint" has on revenue. ;D Reply
  • fanofanand - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Yeah I had to read this one a couple of times before I realized it was simply missing a word or two

    "As a result, Imagination stands to lose of their GPU revenue starting two years down the line."
    Reply
  • Ryan Smith - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Fast typing and an auto-correct that thinks it's smarter than it actually is makes for a risky combination. Thanks guys! Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    It's also why publications had editors who would correct errors before publication. Relying on authors to do this isn't always the best idea. I can write something, and when reading it for corrections, I can read something and not see the error, because unconsciously I know what it was supposed to say.

    The same thing with the loss of fact checkers. I hate to say just how many times I read an article, even in the professional publications online, and find a number of errors, some major. Rarely do the authors read the posts, or if they do, they ignore what's said, and never fix the errors. It's sad.
    Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Ryan Smith is the chief editor of AnandTech. Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    That doesn't matter. He's a writer, and like every other writer, needs his work checked. It's not a slur on him. It's what I already said, you can't reliably check your own work. Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    I think we're the copy editors... Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    You're right. Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    Heck, look at my typos in this thread. Reply
  • tynopik - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    "stands to lose of their GPU revenue" Reply
  • BrokenCrayons - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    There's got to be some sort of logic I'm not following here. Imagination's GPU business is in greatest danger give their failing relationship with Apple. However, the divisions being considerd for sale are the company's brighter spots that aren't GPU related. That seems a rather contrary and short-sighted approach to inject liquidity that offsets a lack of proper asset managment in the years prior to this change. Reply
  • TheinsanegamerN - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    "short-sighted approach to inject liquidity"

    That's every business these days. Nobody thinks past the next quarter anymore.
    Reply
  • beginner99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Assuming MIPS actually made money from them and you are the CEO: You either just go down or you can sell of the good parts, take some money to the bank and let the rest die off (you actually leave before that happens). Do you actually think high-level sociopath manager care if the company survives and employees have a job? They don't. They care about making money and power. Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    It's a good thing your name here starts with "beginner". You have a lot to learn, if you can get over your jaundiced ideas. While occasionally that will happen, mostly those running the company are simply lost as to what to do to solve the problem. They are advised to sell of the "better parts" to save the base of the company's operations. That advice rare,y works out, but it's given over and again. Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Well the alternative is bankruptcy in short-order. Gaining cash buys time. Then either a company sorts itself out (highly unlikely, as it's the same people still running the place who messed up in the first place), or it gets bought or files. But at least it's a chance.

    I wonder why they couldn't keep MIPS and sell the GPU side to Apple? With the R&D they could then afford, perhaps they'd start towards being the next ARM...
    Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I've seen this many times. There is this hope that by selling off areas that may be making a profit, which gives them value, the money they receive will give them time to fix their other problems. Rarely does it work, because their problems are systemic. I can't see it happening here, because Apple did so much of the work themselves, that the looks of that business impacts them even more severely. The 31% of their graphics revenue they will supposedly have left will require a greater expense.

    That's assuming that their other customers don't leave over the next year, or two, with the assumption that they will go under, and so need a different supplier. That almost killed Apple in early 1996, after a disaster in decision making of the CEO at the time. Companies unloaded their Macs in anticipation the company was going to go under.
    Reply
  • KAlmquist - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I expect you are right that selling MIPS and Ensigma won't be enough to save Imagination. It's probably good that they are being sold off, though, if they are sold to financially strong buyers. If they were to remain part of Imagination, the risk would be that these businesses would find themselves starved of R&D funds because of Imagination's financial difficulties. Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    It's too bad, because they have very good technology, even though Apple's needs appear to be different. Reply
  • Timoo - Thursday, May 11, 2017 - link

    That was my first thought too.
    I guess they should have invested in cheap sell-offs to the phone market while they had the chance; now every predator smells the wounds...
    Reply
  • lefty2 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    One thing the article doesn't mention, was the MIPs business ever profitable for Imagination? Reply
  • name99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    We can see the numbers in the annual report:
    https://imagination-technologies-cloudfront-assets...
    page 15.

    MIPS made ~14M pounds profit in 2015, ~8M pounds in 2016.
    That compares with PowerVR at 82M in 2015, 58M in 2016. Ensigma is negative both years, -3M in 2015, -5M in 2016.
    So yeah, the serious money is in graphics but MIPS makes a small profit (and may not be worth the distraction).

    BTW for total douchebaggery, it's hard to get more extreme than this annual report. Check out page 10 which has "An Introduction to Andrew Heath". WTF? Who has such an inflated ego that, in addition to the normal annual reports stuff like CEO's review of the year, he feels he needs to include an interview with himself?

    As for his fine ability to read people. check out this quote from his interview:
    " have now met a large number of our key current and prospective customers. It is clear that we are highly regarded for both the quality of our IP and the capability of our team. They have been reassured by the actions we are taking. We are important to them and highly relevant to their future product strategies. They want us to be successful too."
    RIGHT...
    Reply
  • Timoo - Thursday, May 11, 2017 - link

    Interesting (page 14):

    " At 30 April 2016, the Group breached the requirement to keep net debt at or
    less than 3 times EBITDA (Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization). The breach has been waived by HSBC
    and a fee has been paid by the group for this waiver. The debt facility remains in place and HSBC remains supportive of the
    Group – practically, the bank has good security for the debts outstanding. However, due to the breach, the loans are classified
    as current liabilities at year end. Further information is given in the Group’s going concern and viability statements. "

    Meaning: They got a loan increase from HSBC, under certain conditions. They failed to meet the conditions, so now their loans turned into "bad credit"...
    They will have to Row Harder to keep afloat...
    Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    It's a good move from IMTech, their GPU division is much important than MIPS and Ensigma and has a much better chance of generating revenue from other SoC manufacturers like MediaTek, Rockchip and new players like LG and Sony. Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Oh and Xiaomi too, knew I missed one. Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I don't know. There are a number of companies out there with graphics IP, including ARM, whose graphics looks better that it used to. Easier to just license that from the same company you're already licensing the CPU IP from. A problem is that without Apple, and the reduced internal expenses Apple's own work on the IP allowed, will they have enough income to keep up with their competitors now, or will they fall behind? Reply
  • lmcd - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Is there any reason Img never build anything like a PCI accelerator card for Windows/Linux? Then they'd at least have some diversity right now. Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Too risky a move considering Nvidia's dominating the market. They'd also have to beat Nvidia in performance which I really doubt they could. Reply
  • MrPoletski - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    They could easily beat Nvidia in performance if they built a chip the same size. Frankly, I hope this move means they will try and re-enter the PC space. Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    "They could easily beat Nvidia in performance if they built a chip the same size"

    And you're basing this on?
    Reply
  • lmcd - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Point wasn't to contest the high-end. Imagining more like cool form factors. Say an M.2 passively-cooled graphics card for 4k encoding. Or maybe even a full-on PCI card like such to offload the required bits for streaming. Heck, they could put a full SoC on said streaming PCI card and have it do the uploading part, too. Lots of things they can do with their IP. Reply
  • vladx - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Those are niches that garner little reveneue,if it would be even profitable. Like I said too risky, at least their mobile GPUs still hold a reputation. Reply
  • aIIergen - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    There were some around 1996.
    VideoLogic PowerVR 3D accelerator PCI cards have been sold as 3D-only card for Windows 95.
    Reply
  • SydneyBlue120d - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    This sound a lot like an Al Ries recommendation! Reply
  • name99 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    "If nothing else, Imagination will have the option of taking Apple to court for patent and IP violations once the current agreement expires."

    Just to be clear, you don't get to take a company to court on patent violations just because you're pissed off with them.
    Since none of us have even seen what Apple's replacement for Imagination's GPU looks like, it seems more than a bit premature to assert that it "obviously" violates Imagination IP.
    Reply
  • Archie2085 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Can it be a Strategy Game to See the GFx company to Apple With Some 500 Billion in bank Imagination Should be Pocket change . maybe imagination was asking for Lot more money during Negotiation?? Giving a Shock like this Could Reduce the value of the company and be acquired much cheaper Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Apple has $257 billion in the bank, and you have to subtract the $88 billion they borrowed for share buybacks and expansion one the US.

    Read my earlier posts on this.
    Reply
  • Tams80 - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    A company can't just be bought, and the UK government have become wary of British companies being bought due to some rather bad experiences. Reply
  • redzo - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I feel obliged. No word about mali? No comments at all about mali. Am I not getting things properly? They should have grabbed the bull by its horns: compete with arm's mali at all cost. Too late? Just go bankrupt!
    Apple was in a highly comfortable position to begin with. Im deserves all of this.
    Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    In a way, it's a shame. Imagination's IP has been ahead of everyone else. But Apple's "special sauce" had their own SoC well ahead of everyone else. Who knows just what percentage of their GPU's superiority, in apple's designs, was of Apple's own IP, in addition to Imagination's?

    And other companies have been getting closer to Imagination, in performance. I suggested Mali in an earlier post, though not by name. I said that other Imagination customers might want to go to ARM for their GPU as they already license the CPU, and ARM has been getting better in GPU IP.
    Reply
  • squiggsy - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    "it’s hard to imagine Imagination wants to go toe-to-toe with the richest company in the world, especially once their revenue takes a significant hit."

    What??? Apple aren't the richest company in the world, they are only just in the top 10
    Reply
  • vladx - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Don't mind it, AnandTech has an obvious Apple bias since theor founder works for them. Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    You know, these various lists all encompass different things. Which list is "correct"? One is for sales, another is for liquid assets, but not short term, medium term or long term investments, another counts funds from depositors (for banks), another counts oil in the ground, which varies by a 4:1 ratio over time. There are so many lists, and most have different companies on them. I don't pay attention to them. Reply
  • ZolaIII - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    I think they are doing quite opposite than healthy by selling MIPS. Instead they should push with it more to a consumer market towards satellite receivers where they are dominant & even more towards smart TV set's where they can achieve victory again thanks to by far superior state of software written only for MIPS regarding S2 STB tuners. It's a large enough market to partially compensate for Apple & embedded industrial sector where MIPS is still dominant is steady market without much turbulence so actually they want to sell most secure thing they have & whit which they can push a lot of their GPU IP's. Reply
  • melgross - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    They've been working on it.but the best they can say right now, it that it's stable. I doubt there's a large market there, or they would have spent more energy on it. Companies make mistakes. One big mistake they often make is thinking they can buy themselves,out of trouble. If your main business is in trouble, and it was, then buying something else won't help you. Reply
  • ZolaIII - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Well they certainly can't find they way out of it by selling out, stock holders can but company certainly not. To be honest with you Imagination didn't entered into smart TV market which is a large one & they can with certain advantages that MIPS do have regarding written software for STB S2 tuners it's also a potentially good market to sell more GPU IP's as today's 4K & beyond TV sets do need & graphics horse power & certainly can host more of it then a smartphones. MIPS still rules regarding self stand S2 STB tuners again mostly to developed community & supported emulations & from the start written software only for it. Reply
  • Meteor2 - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    STBs are a very big market. TiVo, Sky etc. Now 'sticks' like Chromecast and Fire TV. No reason a Chromecast couldn't contain a MIPS SoC. Reply
  • webdoctors - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    SAD.

    Sucks when a company fails, but if folks learn anything from Venezuela, its that you should diversify and not rely on one product/customer. The Santa Clara building is right across the street from Nvidia, so it won't change the employees commute time.

    I'm a huge fan of the MIPS CPU, it sounds like IMG has all the IP to make a nice SoC, too bad their liquidating.

    It sounds like they're in arbitration right now and heading to court to sue Apple. I love how businesses use flowerly language to make things confusing:

    "A small, British Apple Inc. supplier said Thursday that it had entered into a formal dispute-resolution process with the Silicon Valley giant and intends to sell a large part of its business amid a patent fight with Apple."

    This translates to small company selling assets to hire lawyers for a long and protracted legal battle with giant. Wish folks would just write clearly rather than obfuscate with extra words.
    Reply
  • Flunk - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Honestly, I think "potential alternative commercial arrangements" is a euphemism for trying to sell themselves to Apple. Apple doesn't want MIPS or Ensigma, they want the graphics division and they can get it a lot cheaper now, after they've announced they're dropping Imagination's GPU tech. Reply
  • RaduR - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Their 2nd largest customer if I am not mistaken is Qualcomm (for their Atheros line) .
    This would make an interesting buy for Qualcomm for MIPS part of business.

    Also with their knowledge maybe they can make something worth of it. Qualcomm + MIPS may be something to wath for.

    On the other end INTEL is using Imagination GPUs , unfortunately they are out of mobile space.

    But with MIPS / x86 an especially PowerVR they may be able to do some kind of comeback.

    Intel has HUGE pockets this would be nothing compared to tehir R&D spending.

    Would you imagine MIPS cpu & PowerVR GPU with Intel foundries of future 7nm.....
    Reply
  • RaduR - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Their 2nd largest customer if I am not mistaken is Qualcomm (for their Atheros line) .
    This would make an interesting buy for Qualcomm for MIPS part of business.

    Also with their knowledge maybe they can make something worth of it. Qualcomm + MIPS may be something to wath for.

    On the other end INTEL is using Imagination GPUs , unfortunately they are out of mobile space.

    But with MIPS / x86 an especially PowerVR they may be able to do some kind of comeback.

    Intel has HUGE pockets this would be nothing compared to tehir R&D spending.

    Would you imagine MIPS cpu & PowerVR GPU with Intel foundries of future 7nm.....
    Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    Ive been trying to understand where MIPS comes into this. It's been dying for a long time. If anyone thinks it will resurrect itself, they should think again.

    Most all development is for ARM/x86. X86 on the high end, and ARM for the low end, though it's pushing into the lower x86 space, and I don't mean Atom, where Apple's SoCs, at least, are already well ahead of that.

    So where does this leave MIPS? I'm not willing to fantasize about what would happen if Qualcomm or Samsung, or anyone else bought it, but rather what the software development community will think. Why spend more time and development dollars on yet another chip family? Money has been tight lately, and I think it's a hard sell.

    So some companies use it. But out of that user space, where will substantial sales come from? What can MIPS do so much more effectively, that pouring a whole bunch of dollars at it will pay off? And what really superior features are there that hardware integration into ARM based chips would be worth while, assuming that whatever ARM license companies have will even allow them to do it?
    Reply
  • Jumangi - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Lawsuit incoming in 3...2...1... Reply
  • Laststop311 - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Really do not want to see them go. I hope they succeed. They have the best performing low wattage gpu's on the market. People need to put the work in and switch to imagination gpu's even if they are more work to integrate into arm cpu's as arm has already done the work integrating mali gpu's. Quit being cheap, all soc's other than qualcomms should be using imagination and imagination is even better than adreno. Reply
  • PixyMisa - Thursday, May 04, 2017 - link

    Seems like a good takeover target for Samsung or Huawei. Reply
  • yeeeeman - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    As someone said below, it is sad. At the same time, much of the blame can be attributed to them because they made the mistake to trust Apple too much. They should have tried to pursue as many manufacturers as possible to use their IP, because, lets face it, they can make a fast GPU for sure. I think in business it is imperative that at any given time you have a plan B, because plan A, as good as it might seem can go to the drain when you expect the least. And you are left with this kind of situation, where a great graphics IP (and not only) is in danger of going out of business. Still, I am sure that in the case this happens, they will be bought fast by some big company. Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    It's not a matter of trust. Are you saying that when you're a customer of a company, you're always a customer? You've never changed?

    This was coming at some point. They had to know something was up. Apple kept adding more and more of their own IP to the mix. Year after year. And they licensed out special designs to Apple for several years, at least. It's been a while since the first report here said that the specific design Apple was using wasn't on IMs product sheets.
    Reply
  • Gothmoth - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    rest in peace.... who cares Reply
  • 037marc - Friday, May 05, 2017 - link

    Rule number one is when you become an Apple supplier, you need to invest and broaden your client portfolio, with the Apple supplier money. Reply
  • melgross - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    When you become a supplier to ANY major company. Reply
  • NetMage - Sunday, May 07, 2017 - link

    Nothing special about Apple here. Reply
  • Tams80 - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    It's a real shame, as they were the only real 'other' option in terms of architecture. MIPS and their GPUs offered some diversity to ARM's offerings and x86. A few more years may have seen it do well. Oh well. Reply
  • Vishalaestro - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    It's very good time for samsung and huawei as they can use Imagination for their exynos and kirin line of cpu's ,the mali GPU wasn't powerful as adreno in recent times . Reply
  • VirusTheory - Saturday, May 06, 2017 - link

    They have quite a bit of GPU IP from the early days of GPU's if IIRC. Hopefully this and new IP will be enough to keep them alive . Those Kyro GPU's were awesome ! Reply
  • ericore - Sunday, May 07, 2017 - link

    "Apple uses Imagination's designs to make the GPUs for the iPhone, iPad and Apple Watch, but Apple has been working on its own graphics design on the side." Quote from Wired.com
    Let's put Imagination's lack of foresight aside for now. The problem they have is strictly positional. They unintentionally made themselves look weak. If they were to sell their patent porfolio or merge now, the offers would be also be weak. Imagination has their work cut out for them to regain better positioning which should ultimately be their top priority. Once positioning is re-established, options will open up. Hopefully that happens before they run out of money, haha.
    The clock is ticking, they are sinking but are not sunk yet.

    is terrible however because neither Nvidia nor AMD has penetrated the phone market for GPUs, I expect them to survive for several years if they choose to.
    Reply
  • Tams80 - Sunday, May 07, 2017 - link

    AMD used to have mobile GPUs, they sold that part of their business to Qualcomm though. Reply
  • vladx - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    They might've had the patents and the tech, but never had an actual viable product for the market. Reply
  • Lolimaster - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    They were basically surviving on the Apple boat. The other market are basically Mediatek, Qualcomm and Samsunc SOCs. Reply
  • vladx - Tuesday, May 09, 2017 - link

    Rockchip, Huawei and new entries to SoC design like LG, Sony and Xiaomi say hello. Reply
  • abufrejoval - Monday, May 08, 2017 - link

    I guess once Apple manages to also design iConsumers with unlimited purchasing budgets in-house, they are *really* going to take off! Reply
  • UtilityMax - Sunday, June 04, 2017 - link

    It is sad that once mighty and well-regarded MIPS architecture and instruction set don't find as so use these days. Is ARM that much better? Reply
  • helvete - Thursday, July 20, 2017 - link

    Nope Reply

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