AMD’s Enduro Switchable Graphics Levels Up
by Jarred Walton on September 6, 2012 3:00 AM ESTIntroduction
A couple weeks back, I contacted AMD to let them know I was working on a notebook review—a Clevo P170EM from AVADirect with HD 7970M graphics. Much to my surprise, when I received the notebook I discovered it used AMD’s Dynamic Switchable Graphics, now rebranded as Enduro. It has been just over a year since my last look at the technology, where things were so bad that I felt most users would be better off if they had only discrete AMD GPUs and no switchable graphics—or they could simply buy NVIDIA Optimus enabled laptops. The short story is that my initial experience with the P170EM was largely the same, only the lack of driver updates was even more damning when looking at a notebook sporting such a high-end GPU. What could be done? AMD scheduled a meeting with me to go over the latest updates, and thankfully things aren’t quite so grim as I first thought.
First, let’s get everyone up to speed. Historically speaking, AMD/ATI has been on the forefront of switchable graphics technology. While the first laptop with switchable graphics tested at AnandTech used NVIDIA’s implementation (the ASUS UL80Vt), Radeon-based alternatives also existed in a similar time frame. The main problems with early switchable graphics solutions is that they required extra hardware on the manufacturer side (muxes), increasing cost, and more importantly you were generally locked in to getting graphics driver updates from the laptop OEM. NVIDIA addressed both problems when they launched Optimus in early 2010, and while there were certainly some teething pains the vast majority of users have been pleased with the result. Where did that leave AMD? Simply put: out of most laptops.
Was it because NVIDIA had superior technology, better drivers, or better marketing? I’d say yes to all three, and it has been painful to watch as the number of laptops with discrete GPUs (at least in the US) has largely shifted to being NVIDIA products. Up until now, if you wanted a laptop with a discrete GPU, the ability to switch off that GPU, and you wanted regular driver updates, your only viable option has been NVIDIA equipped laptops. Perhaps that’s why every major OEM (along with most smaller OEMs/ODMs) ships at least some of their laptops with NVIDIA’s Optimus Technology. With laptop sales now outpacing desktop sales, giving up so much ground to their competitor is a serious problem AMD needs to overcome.
I should note that AMD has other products that actually help get around our concerns with Enduro. The Llano and Trinity APUs for example offer integrated GPU that are as fast (faster in some cases) as discrete GPUs. If you’re looking for a good budget laptop that gets excellent battery life and you don’t want to deal with switchable graphics at all, Llano started the trend of providing a decent GPU with acceptable CPU performance and Trinity continues that trend. Even better: driver updates aren’t a problem as there’s only one AMD GPU to contend with. Trinity/Llano didn’t win any awards for pure performance, but in terms of bang for the buck and creating a well-rounded device, the APUs have proven successful. But we’re not going to worry about Trinity/Llano or other APUs; today’s focus is on discrete GPUs and switching between these high-power, high-performance GPUs and low-power, low-performance integrated graphics.
With that out of the way, let’s look at the history of AMD’s switchable graphics as well as where they intend to go in the near future.
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Wolfpup - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
Whoops, a few spelling mistakes, and I mean to say why is Anandtech supporting this junk, not AMD...I know why AMD is, Nvidia, and apparently OEMs that would rather have all sorts of complaints about their systems not working but be able to post a longer battery life on the box.JarredWalton - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
Please give me a list of problems with Optimus that don't involve Linux. I've asked for this -- to you specifically -- numerous times in previous comments. And just for the record, you CAN'T disable Optimus with a BIOS tweak. The only way to get rid of Optimus on a laptop that has it is to buy a new laptop -- unless the laptop was designed to allow that (e.g. some Alienware models). An Optimus GPU has no direct connection to the display outputs, so if you want to turn off the iGPU you would have no display at all.As to what consumers want working dynamic graphics support: *I* want it, and most people that want a laptop that can both play games as well as last more than three hours on battery want it. Colleges and universities are full of students that carry around laptops, and those who play games all want Optimus or a similar technology. In fact, it's so desirable that even Apple has gone the switchable graphics route on MacBook Pro laptops for the past three years (though granted they only have to support a very small subset of hardware and their own OS).
In an ideal world, we'd have a discrete GPU that can do basic work like an IGP while only consuming <1W. The problem is that when you have higher end GPUs that have 2GB RAM and all the other stuff, idling at 1W isn't likely to happen any time soon. They need to be able to shut off all VRAM except for a small amount, power down nearly all of the GPU (maybe 48 CUDA cores or 80 Stream Processors could stay active), and drop clocks way down. Then they need to be able to power all the other components back up without any delays and gracefully handle scaling of power use with demands. As complex as switchable/dynamic graphics might be, doing all of the above is even more so. That's why AMD and NVIDIA are working on Enduro and Optimus (though I assume there's also work being done to bring idle power use way down as well).
Vozier - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
I think MANY users are pleased with switchable grapchis, just no GAMER users are.But dont mix things, this article is some of the best news we can get about ENDURO and its improvements.
I know is late for many, but dont trash it, you might as well get the thing removed...
LETS BUILD
not DESTROY....
regards
Voz
extide - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
I am a more knowledgeable consumer than you, own a P150EM with a 680m and am GLAD it has Optimus and that was a feature I WANTED.Optimus/Enduro when working CORRECTLY IS ACTUALLY what everyone WANTS. It is supposed to save battery and get the best gaming performance, which is what everyone wants. Right now it just doesnt work correctly in all cases, and that's what people don't want.
As a side note I don't think Optimus on the 680m is actually working correctly, I think it is running the dGPU all the time and not shutting it down all the way, but that is a whole different topic.
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
If it's running the dGPU all the time, your battery life should be around 60 to 90 minutes tops -- less if you're using the GPU to play a game. Also, at least on the P170EM, Clevo clearly hasn't invested a lot of effort into optimizing power states when the system is idle or under a light load. I'll have the full review shortly, but basically the P170EM (NVIDIA or AMD variant) draws around 20W while idle; it should be more like 10-11W, indicating there's a whole lot of extra power being used by the motherboard and other accessories. Big OEMs like Dell, Samsung, Sony, HP, etc. usually put a lot more effort into power optimizations and it shows.Hrobertgar - Friday, September 7, 2012 - link
About 2 years ago, I bought a Dell XPS with 420M and switchable graphics, not because I wanted switchable graphics, I just liked the systems specs. The first thing I did was tell the system to use the dGPU 100% of the time, as I use it plugged into the wall 99% of the time (it just means I can travel with a game capable system).My experience was that when playing WoW unplugged it lasted for maybe 20-30 minutes. Fortunately that is a rare situation, but I can relate to the suggestion in the article that switchable systems should probably default to dGPU if its plugged in and iGPU if its battery power. I mean the entire point of having the dGPU is to use it, and if its plugged in to the wall then I don't care about power usage as a Laptop uses less than a desktop already, so why throttle beyond that.
For those that think NVIDIA can do no wrong: A couple months ago I updated BIOS and drivers and somewhere in the process my frame rates cratered. Not being as fancy as many of you it took me a while to discover that one of the updates reverted to default iGPU 100% of the time. The new software prevented me from going 100% dGPU as before, and I basically had to tell it that internet and games should use dGPU, and I have added a dGPU usage icon to verify that is the case, and my frame rates were restored. I do not know if the issue was Dell or Intel or NVIDIA, but I do have an NVIDIA system and there was a small issue, with the switchable graphics.
JarredWalton - Friday, September 7, 2012 - link
Normally, with Optimus you can just set the global profile to use "High-performance NVIDIA processor" and you're done. Of course, some of the newer driver profiles have things like iexplorer.exe, firefox.exe, chrome.exe, and probably a bunch of other "light" processes set to the Integrated graphics (which will override the global profile). In practice of course, I prefer to simply set Optimus laptops to "Auto" and things work properly 99% of the time for me.YMMV, naturally -- personally, I don't want my laptop running the dGPU all the time if I don't need it, as it's simply more heat being generated. More heat means the fans work harder, creating more noise and also potentially wearing out sooner rather than later. But then, I have a desktop for regular non-travel use, so it's not quite that critical that my laptops perform optimally all the time.
seapeople - Saturday, September 8, 2012 - link
I cannot fathom how any knowledgeable person could think switchable graphics are a universally bad thing on laptops. If you're a 100% gamer, that's what desktops are for. If you're a heavy gamer, same thing. Desktops are cheaper, more reliable, easier to upgrade, and give much better performance. If you're so freaked out about it that switchable graphics seem like the devil to you, THEN GET A DESKTOP.For the rest of the population, switchable graphics allow you to get at least 2x and maybe more battery life while your laptop runs cooler and quieter for almost every non-gaming application out there. It's a big deal.
arcticjoe - Saturday, September 8, 2012 - link
What about people who travel a lot, or are in college or need a mobile platform. Should I waste money on buying a gaming PC and a laptop for mobile work, or just get a machine that does both instead?Current gen laptops are very close to high end PCs in terms of performance, - most can overclock their CPUs to 4ghz+ and GPUs are quicker than last gen's flagship cards (GTX 580 and Radeon 6970).
johnxfire - Thursday, September 6, 2012 - link
I've got a 7970M on my P150HM since my HD6990M died and I was too damned to send in my whole laptop to get it repaired.The 7970M without Enduro is a dream. Really fast, temps stay below 80c. Hopefully the P150/170EM owners will get to experience the fullest of their 7970Ms.